[Mk2] [Turbo] Engine wont start in kit car. Alot of checks done

[killerferret666]

Where to start;

Checked for spark at plug - confirmed
Tried two batteries just in case it was a battery - confirmed
New plugs as well

Fuel pump only primes on start (normal) but with a separate fuse board i could wire directly to come on igntion which I did - I can hear fuel pump and fuel returning.

Turn it over, then removed plugs and the plugs look dry especially for the amount I have turned this over, so its as if the EFI isnt allowing the injectors to open

I've checked I have connected all connections and I believe I have.

Whats the next things to check on the MR2 side of things, a particular connector? check for a voltage on certain wire? as unfortunately never got to play with it much as a MR2

[gavinda]

Do u have the cluster, can u check for error codes?

[killerferret666]

Do u have the cluster, can u check for error codes?

No I don't im afraid, thats why i think im going to need to go on peoples experiences.

Unfortunately forum searches on dry plugs is not yielding much

Should add earths checked including one under the intake manifold

[killerferret666]

Just working my way through BGB checks of EFI and ECU

I'll report back

[killerferret666]

ok checked ECU and the below pinouts on ECU

ECU it has power
Throttle position sensor showing expected voltage when open
air flow meter voltage expected when closed
Injectors 1 - 4 showing voltage

water temp sensor - reading could be 0.1 and was using analogue voltmeter

Turbo charging pressure sensor - no voltage picked up - would this stop it starting?

I guess as I've had the engine apart and head I need to check the timing as well to be sure.

I undid the banjo on fuel filter as well (after the fuel filter on way to engine) and fuel came out

[Peter Gidden]

Do u have the cluster, can u check for error codes?

No I don't im afraid

Just hook a spare dash bulb on tails to +VE and CEL pin on ECU plug.

These engines when dead are not difficult to get going. Feel free to call me to discuss if you wish.

[killerferret666]

Do u have the cluster, can u check for error codes?

No I don't im afraid

Just hook a spare dash bulb on tails to +VE and CEL pin on ECU plug.

These engines when dead are not difficult to get going. Feel free to call me to discuss if you wish.

Peter thanks for the great tip,
I'll give that a go tomorrow and see what error codes I get and go from there

[killerferret666]

did this (thanks again Peter)

Code 41 - throttle position Sensor.

Ill check the connections later, any common faults occur here?

[Peter Gidden]

Code 41 - throttle position Sensor.

Ill check the connections later, any common faults occur here?

Check TPS at pins for continuity and resistance per workshop manual.

Then set TPS idle switch as per manual.

[killerferret666]

Code 41 - throttle position Sensor.

Ill check the connections later, any common faults occur here?

Check TPS at pins for continuity and resistance per workshop manual.

Then set TPS idle switch as per manual.

Dug out the manual (must buy myself a digital meter!). Do the sensors normally fail or is it normally a setup issue?

[Peter Gidden]

Code 41 - throttle position Sensor.

Ill check the connections later, any common faults occur here?

Check TPS at pins for continuity and resistance per workshop manual.

Then set TPS idle switch as per manual.

Dug out the manual (must buy myself a digital meter!). Do the sensors normally fail or is it normally a setup issue?

Both. The wiper (the part that increses/decreases resitance) can fail, as can the switch position when people mess with it.

[killerferret666]

just had a friend over who works for a breakdown company with some extra gizmo's, light battery booster etc...

He put a light diode on the injectors and it was weak, then after checking cables etc.. sometimes not at all, then weak after another check / move of cables. rare we got a strong light from it.

I'm going to clean up the connectors because after a yr and half of sat around maybe some corrosion has got to the connectors.

If anyone has seen similar before feel free to post.

[vtecpower]

just had a friend over who works for a breakdown company with some extra gizmo's, light battery booster etc...

He put a light diode on the injectors and it was weak, then after checking cables etc.. sometimes not at all, then weak after another check / move of cables. rare we got a strong light from it.

I'm going to clean up the connectors because after a yr and half of sat around maybe some corrosion has got to the connectors.

If anyone has seen similar before feel free to post.

Not being rude mate but it seems your going backwards when the ecu has already pointed a fault out

[killerferret666]

just had a friend over who works for a breakdown company with some extra gizmo's, light battery booster etc...

He put a light diode on the injectors and it was weak, then after checking cables etc.. sometimes not at all, then weak after another check / move of cables. rare we got a strong light from it.

I'm going to clean up the connectors because after a yr and half of sat around maybe some corrosion has got to the connectors.

If anyone has seen similar before feel free to post.

Not being rude mate but it seems your going backwards when the ecu has already pointed a fault out

I've done the TPS. The TPS wouldn't stop the car from firing up though as far as I know it would only run rough on idle but at least fire up.

With more testing again today were beginning to suspect the starter motor is drawing far too many amps and hence everything else is weak at that point in time. Having it tested on Saturday morning so will know then.

Shame I'm not at a stage I can bump start!

[MartinF]

It may be worth making a temporary earth connection from the head to the negative post of the battery, just in case you have an earth strap missing somewhere.

[killerferret666]

It may be worth making a temporary earth connection from the head to the negative post of the battery, just in case you have an earth strap missing somewhere.

we did similar, with his battery booster which can take 900amps we connected this direct to the starter and chassis, so all of the starter motors pull was not using those wires.

This is what made him think it was possibly the starter motor as when turning over it would be smooth and then almost struggle (but only slightly with the battery pack).

Overall weird but then after a yr and 8 months sat around it was always going to be!

[killerferret666]

Well this morning I decided this wasn't the electrics any more, all earths good etc... I have a spark I had fuel.

Starter changed but made no difference.

I had to go back to basics and check bits i'd paid to be done. Now the engine I stripped at a garage to clean everything. He did the head and reseated the valves and of course then refitted cams in the head, turbo etc...

I got the timing belt top cover off to find that the 2 dimples on the gears were very far out at TDC, inlet 5 teeth before, exhaust 5 teeth roughly after.

however two tippex marks lined up...because of this it meant to be sure i needed to whip the cam cover off. This is what i found


Exhaust



Inlet



Now im no engine expert but they should be at the top?? those marks on the cams do line up with the dimples on the outside


Now one advanatge of a kit car is being able to get to all spaces easily! I can access the tensioner two bolts very easily, to alter will the below be ok (without any danger of things springing off)

1. Undo two bolts
2. compress pin and put in release spring
3. adjust cams to be correct
3. refit spring
4. release pin

thanks in advance from someone still slightly in shock! And I thank Toyota for non interference engines

[slipping clutch]

with number one piston at TDC you are correct - those dimples should line up ( your timing marker on the lower pulley should be at 0 degrees with no1 at tdc.) was the distributer turned all the way clockwise or anticlockwise by any chance with the motor set up like this?
The only thing I would say is that I would have expected you to report back on initially trying to start the motor that loud pops and bangs ensued when you tried to start it but it could be that the timing is far enough out that this wouldn't happen.

[killerferret666]

with number one piston at TDC you are correct - those dimples should line up ( your timing marker on the lower pulley should be at 0 degrees with no1 at tdc.) was the distributer turned all the way clockwise or anticlockwise by any chance with the motor set up like this?
The only thing I would say is that I would have expected you to report back on initially trying to start the motor that loud pops and bangs ensued when you tried to start it but it could be that the timing is far enough out that this wouldn't happen.

Cheers for the reply,

yep 1 at TDC (using screwdriver in piston technique to confirm) and lower pulley on 0 degrees.

Distributer was not touched as in back on marks left, I think its so far out i'm not getting any loud bangs or pops, but just wet plugs.

Right ill get out there and whip the tensioner off and try setting it up.

[slipping clutch]

Fingers crossed it works but it needs sorting anyway