Nurburgring

[afennell]

White rabbit racing.

http://www.whiterabbitracing.co.uk/

They have arranged the camping out at britcar 24

[BenF]

FWIW - John's accident earlier, Paul and I were at the Ring with him and others from the 'DC when that happened - I was perhaps 30 seconds further ahead as we'd all gone through the barriers at the entrance at the same time.

Chatting to John afterwards ( ..sadly, he passed away last year - may he RIP ) he was remarkably cool about it and amazingly was unhurt by the accident. The car ended up being broken with some Germans coming to the UK to collect the rear clip and engine..

John was following / trying to catch a MR2 in front who knew the track better than he did. Having just overtaken that Fiat 500 he came into that corner (which is very fast, small crest part way through) on the inside with too much speed. When he realised his mistake he touched the brakes just on the crest and that was enough to start the skid.

If you're going for the first time - I'd say treat the circuit with plenty of respect, many people have died there. I've come across some bike accidents that were terrible and there have been some tragic car accidents whilst I've been there.

If you're driving, its a great place with a fantastic atmosphere, especially in the start/finish car park. I'd say just drive at 8/10ths and make allowance for the unexpected, like coming around a corner and finding a bike over on its side, or even a car spun around 180 and facing you on the exit of the corner.

Enjoy driving there, keep the shiny side up

[Michel]

Anyone down at the Ring this weekend? I will be down there for the next week. 27th to the 5th Sept.

I've been there Sunday, haven't seen a MR2 though but it was awfull busy.
Maybe you can find a pic of your MR2 here ?
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z297 ... ?start=all

[Benmoore999]

Sure did I was in the Carribean Blue Rev 3 Nice one.

[solly]

Do it cost a lot if you crash at the nurburgring heard it cost loads is this true.

[Benmoore999]

It can, depends how much of an off you have..... A mate of mine grazed a stretch of armco and bent a supporting post. 30 mins of marshalls time that came to 1000 euros....

[Michel]

Do it cost a lot if you crash at the nurburgring heard it cost loads is this true.

These are old prices, I think from back in 2005.

Marshall per hour: 60 Euro
Marshall-car per hour: 36 Euro
Armco/barrier per meter: 40 Euro (note : on most places there are actually 2 barriers on top of each other, so if you damage 1 meter, it's 2x 40,-)
Armco-pole: 45 Euro
Flatbed truck: 175 Euro
In case of a severe crash they have to close the track which costs 1.350,- Euro per hour.

[cg nz]

As Ben posted, you are best driving within your limits - the limits of your track knowledge, car control and the blind corners...

...it's a hell of a place to be pushing on for a time and risking your car, yourself and others...

..I have been goig for a few years and done a few laps and had my moments on a few different bends...

...for me it has always been down to my mistakes and not getting caught up with other accidents, but the risk is always there...

..if you are having some scary moments then sounds like you may be beyond your limits in some corners...risky

IIRC it was Hans Stuck who said there are two sorts of drivers at the Ring..

...those who have crashed...

...and those who are waiting to crash..

The more laps we do, the greater the chance that we will have a crash...

My worst accident was being cautious in the wet, doing laps gently enough as I believed, and then had a spin - some damage resulted

For me it may have been finding an oil spillage or just too close to a kerb, but if you are lapping and noticing scary moments means you are making your own risk greater IMO

Take car out there!

[Jim Galbally]

FWIW - John's accident earlier, Paul and I were at the Ring with him and others from the 'DC when that happened - I was perhaps 30 seconds further ahead as we'd all gone through the barriers at the entrance at the same time.

Chatting to John afterwards ( ..sadly, he passed away last year - may he RIP ) he was remarkably cool about it and amazingly was unhurt by the accident. The car ended up being broken with some Germans coming to the UK to collect the rear clip and engine..

John was following / trying to catch a MR2 in front who knew the track better than he did. Having just overtaken that Fiat 500 he came into that corner (which is very fast, small crest part way through) on the inside with too much speed. When he realised his mistake he touched the brakes just on the crest and that was enough to start the skid.

If you're going for the first time - I'd say treat the circuit with plenty of respect, many people have died there. I've come across some bike accidents that were terrible and there have been some tragic car accidents whilst I've been there.

If you're driving, its a great place with a fantastic atmosphere, especially in the start/finish car park. I'd say just drive at 8/10ths and make allowance for the unexpected, like coming around a corner and finding a bike over on its side, or even a car spun around 180 and facing you on the exit of the corner.

Enjoy driving there, keep the shiny side up

just watched the video and thought "i can see where this is going" as he approached on the inside at speed


guess we have to make mistakes to learn tho

whilst thatsa corner most cars can comfortably take flat out, you certainly dont want to be starting on the inside!!!!

cant wait to take the MR2 out there, been a few times in a sierra cosworth and M3 and want to see how the MR2 compares. whilst it's as quick as the M3 in a straight line im not sure if it'll be as fast through the sweeping sections and inspire enough confidence to match the pace. still should be great fun through the tight chuckable sections

[cg nz]

I think you will find that 'MOST CARS' cannot take 'THAT CORNER' 'FLAT OUT'...

In fact unless you are a good race driver with slicks and roll cage who knows the Ring, you would have to be an idiot to think that and an even bigger idiot to suggest it on a public forum....

I doubt any cars go through Schwedenkreuz flat out - max revs in top gear...?

Through a corner that is off camber, downhill with two brows before you turn left...

...a corner that is prob the most dangerous on the Ring...

Def NOT a corner for a 'flat out' entry!

[BenF]

Got to agree with Chris here - if you want to find the limits, do it at a trackday in the UK where there's lots of run off, and not where there's a triple layer of armco a couple of metres to one side of the track with trees waiting behind to 'punish' you if you make a mistake.

If you go to the ring driving at 10/10ths, or chasing a specific time you're pushing too hard. I've found myself to my surprise that I'm actually quicker (and enjoy more) laps I'm relaxed and flowing with the circuit, rather than trying to hustle the car along.

If you look at Race footage from the Ring, even in a race prepped road car with some downforce it isn't a corner that can be taken flat at 130-140mph - all cars will at least lift, or road cars take a little speed off on the brakes to settle the car in for this.

This is probably one of the corners I give most respect to at the ring - that and Hole Acht (which I don't always don't brake enough for ..)

[Jim Galbally]

whilst i agree its not a clever thing for a tourist to do especially with limited experience, it can be taken flat out in most relatively quick cars. in most <300bhp cars you'll be doing about 130ish tops on entry, which isnt "too fast" if taken with the correct line.

i personally have never attempted to do it. I brake well before and coast round very slowly (<100mph) just because i don't fancy ANY risk over there and it is a nasty corner... lol

[cg nz]

Cannot agree at all...

...flat out...NO

... comfortably...NO!

I cannot believe that you can state such rubbish, even slower cars should avoid going through 'flat-out' as they will be on the limit of control/safety

...but you seem to want to persist with your views, perhaps you are here going on about this to provoke response...



And as for the best way to go through that corner

...coasting...NEVER

...under power...ALWAYS


And actually many cars will be approaching faster than 130 before the braking point around the brow and before the turn in point

[Michel]

Schwedenkreuz.. always a nice challenge.

If it's dry and grip is ok then I approach Schwedenkreuz with about 210/215km/u but I have to say that I stop accelerating after I come out of the dip , going slightly uphill before braking. I've seen to many accidents there so I take a big margin there. When coming from the dip and going uphill it's hard to see if there's a accident. So when going for the last bit uphill I take my foot off the throttle and wait a bit for the car to settle over the bumps and then turn left while pressing the throttle again. I don't need to brake because I released throttle early. I've never watched the speedo midcorner lol.. but I think it'll be around 180km/u. That's still wussy style mind you, some ppl go a lot faster ! If you go above 200km/u it gets very nasty though (on streettires) because exiting Schwedenkreuz with those speeds mean you'll be at the right and you have to move back to the left to assure your braking zone for Aremberg. Sometimes when the grip is a bit iffy I end up at the right and it really sucks having to move back to the left and braking at the same time while travelling +180km/u.

[oBladeo]

Well i flew over with a mate last year and rented a car to kill it round there and it was amazing!!. Also saw a F1 car there that was doing some laps as a promo stunt or something.

Going next year in the mr2 in July ish time but taking about 2 weeks off work to do it was were stopping in france and some other countries on the way there and back

[Jim Galbally]

Cannot agree at all...

...flat out...NO

... comfortably...NO!

I cannot believe that you can state such rubbish, even slower cars should avoid going through 'flat-out' as they will be on the limit of control/safety

...but you seem to want to persist with your views, perhaps you are here going on about this to provoke response...



And as for the best way to go through that corner

...coasting...NEVER

...under power...ALWAYS


And actually many cars will be approaching faster than 130 before the braking point around the brow and before the turn in point

erm, whats with the anger?

oh well guess i better f**k off then as it's clearly something i have absolutely no experience of whatsoever and am just making up random xxxx....

[cg nz]

Well you can go or stay I guess...


..you may have experience of laps there at the Ring...

...anger, from me, maybe...

..but your comments don't make sense, are really unsafe to tell other less experienced people, who may visit this forum, about going flat out through such a dangerous corner, and your comments do not match my experience of the place or my views of that corner particularly...


...maybe your comments are s h 1 t...


..your words not mine...