Insurance Claim (car write off :().

[Dame]

Hi Guys,

Unfortunately last week, my 18 years of MR2 ownership came to an abrupt end when a lorry driver rear-ended and wrote off my car - we were in a queue of traffic leading to a roundabout. The driver has admitted liability.

The problem I have now is that I hadn't managed to secure an agreed value due to waiting for all the invoices of the work I had done to the car over the last months to arrive. I had been driving the car very little due to this. So now I'm looking at market value. The insurer has hinted that they are only going to give me around £1,000 - £1,500 for the car (which is or rather was an immaculate GT Turbo tin top). They are going on Parker's used car price guide which does not cover Turbo cars.

I have researched Auto Trader and eBay and the cheapest Turbos are around the £3K mark. Bearing this in mind, considering that insurance is supposed to return you to the position you were in before the accident, will I get anywhere arguing that case? I can't see how they can imply that a non-Turbo UK car is the same as a Turbo import.

Has anyone dealt with this issue before? If so what were you able to resolve it and what did you do? I was thinking of sending pictures, invoices for the work done and evidence of the prices on Auto Trader and eBay. Surely if I cannot buy a car with the money they pay of equivalent spec and quality then surely they're breaching their obligations...? The car is insured as a GT Turbo and I paid more due to this.

Thanks for any advice,

Damien

[jimGTS]

I was thinking of sending pictures, invoices for the work done and evidence of the prices on Auto Trader and eBay. Surely if I cannot buy a car with the money they pay of equivalent spec and quality then surely they're breaching their obligations...? The car is insured as a GT Turbo and I paid more due to this.

Thanks for any advice,

Damien

this im sure is your only option.
pictures, list of modifications/receipts and a whole list of links/or print outs of cars currently for sale in and around your spec.


sorry to here what happened.

im actually currently on the look out for agreed value insurance myself.

[markstevieandmads]

I've got an agreed value option on my insurance from admiral.

Need to take 6 photos, 4 of the outside,1 inside and 1 of engine bay.

I've declared all mods.

About £20 a Month with 9yrs ncb...I'm 37.

[markr1]

Yes same here admiral are great I'm 46 full no claims guaranteed value of 4000 and £110 for insurance as part of a multicar policy

[rgb]

you need to argue all the way. the way they value your car is to see what what cars are being sold for . a turbo is not a non turbo and a gt is not a gts . as its not on your insurance tell them to repair the car or find you one that's the same

[Pauln]

I was in a similar position a couple of years ago, and as others have said you need photos to try to back your claim that the car was in exceptional condition and copies of adverts for as close a match as you can find. Even then it can be hard work to get a decent pay out.

Watch out for how much they may want to deduct for salvage if you intend hanging on to the car and repairing it.

In my own case, which was also a rear end and therefore a "no fault" claim, I actually found I achieved a better result by claiming directly off the third parties insurance company rather than my own as they were quite keen to settle. That way your own policy stays intact. Just a thought.

Paul

[Pauln]

double post

[Dame]

Thanks for all the help and sympathy guys, it's really appreciated. I've gone from being gutted to being angry and am now sitting somewhere around determined.

I took a load of pictures when I got it restored three months ago, they're high quality and from every angle inside and out.

I have the claim reference for the third party insurer, so it sounds like calling them directly is the way to go, so I'll give them a bell in the morning.

It was a rear end smash so definitely a non-fault accident. I definitely do not want my policy touched in any way. It's bad enough losing the car, it would be criminal if my insurance goes up as a result!

Fortunately I'm in no real rush, I don't depend on the car so I will fight hard to get the right money. From what I've read they cannot wriggle out of it as much as they'd like to try.

[aussieGT]

From reading about others experiences here make sure you don't accept any payments or cheques - reject them and return them registered mail if any turn up.

It could take a while but gather your evidence for a fair price of what a like for like car costs. Wasn't your fault at all so you shouldn't lose out for someones else's stuff up, take the right line of approach and you won't.

[Dame]

Thanks mate, yes I've already read about situations where the cheque being cashed can be seen as an indication of acceptance. I have time on my side so they won't be trying to get me to settle out of desperation and I definitely won't be cashing any cheques in a hurry.

The whole process is exasperating though. When I had my camera and lenses stolen it was a simple case of phoning the insurance company who paid the full cost of getting a new one and lenses of equivalent value within a week. The irony is that the payout for the camera etc. was far more than I would need to replace the car!

I'll keep you all posted, will be good to have some more real world experience of dealing with this very common problem.

[SonicSW20]

Good luck.

When it comes to insurance renewal time, seriously consider changing the type of policy you have. While an agreed value policy costs a bit more, it would save you all of this grief in the event you have to claim.

[Ryan S]

How can they justify charging more for insuring a turbo then refuse to pay out for a turbo? Good luck with this mate, Take them to task!

[Mike N]

I am sure there are insurance experts on this site but this is what I did when almost the same thing happened to me.

1. Insurance companies base payouts on several valuation methods one of which are what cars are sold for on Auto trader, you will need 3 adverts printed off with all ref numbers and dates showing the current price of what a turbo version would reasonably expect to sell for. eBay is not recognised.

2. Show all of your vehicles service history proving that the car is well maintained and in good running order.

3. Prove with reciepts all work carried out for purpose of recent restoration.

4. Do not except the first two offers the insurance company offer you as they will be low.

5. If the accident was caused and admitted by the third party, you will be entittled to a host of policy features like a hire care at nil cost to you, be sure to check any hire car given for damage when you sign for it or you will pay when they check it back off of you!!!

6. The insurance company may inform you that your car requires inspecting, ensure the car is as spotless as can be to show how good the car was prior to the third party crashing into you, during this inspection the vehicle may be written off due to being beyond economical repair (a veh assessor will inspect and give you a report) if they do......

7. Offer to buy the car back which is normally at 10-20% of the final payout you are offered, repair or salvage the car as spares - you will not loose any money. The car may be recorded as cat D easy fix or cat C requires gov insp before being allowed back on the road. This last bit may have changed.

8. If you were injured at all there are other things you will be entittled too.

Hope this helps

[rev3gtturbo]

It was a rear end smash so definitely a non-fault accident. I definitely do not want my policy touched in any way. It's bad enough losing the car, it would be criminal if my insurance goes up as a result!

Sadly the world has changed and that is a common assumption until you get screwed by an insurance claim.

The insurers no longer assume being rear-ended is a non-fault accident. Google crash for cash car insurance claims. Some bad people out there and sadly why some people feel the need to fit dashcams.

There are also cases when the driver at fault admits it and then when it comes to the insurance claim they change the story to be not their fault.
Not sure if that is because motor insurance policies say don't admit anything.


Even though it is not your fault, you will still end up on the motor insurance database as having an accident (and have to declare it to next years insurers etc or they can void your policy) which will put your premiums up (for all your vehicles, even on different policies) for a few years even with a proctected NCD.

What you could do is use the County Court to sue the other driver for your policy excess. Do this before the other driver does it to you.

The insurers will use that court decision to determine blame for the accident so they can settle the claim at minimum cost to the insurer.
Note that you and the other driver will probably have very similar photos of the scene and the roads signs and road markings and the same imagery cant be used to support both sides of the argument.

Many years ago I got stung by that one when another driver was completely at fault and drove into me and he got his photos into his insurer first so my insurance said cant accept them as need different evidence.
In my case the other driver told the court one thing and his insurer a different story (changed story which direction was going along the road!), which meant I should have won easily as he was blatantly telling porkies to the insurer or the court.
The insurers wont want to spend loads on legal fees to defend a claim for a small insurance excess and will just want to pay that off the other driver as minimum cost. They said it would not affect my claim so I stupidly went along with my insurers recommendation.
Later the insurers put full blame on me based on the county court outcome.
Very angry at the time how unfair that was.
At renewal time for 5 years I would have tell the broker that it really was not my fault blah blah.

[rev3gtturbo]

Good luck haggling market value of any old car. A friend had an SUV hit their MR2 and did minimal cosmetic damage and the insurer was wanting to write it off! SUV driver admitted fault at the time and then said not their fault on the insurance claim.

The insurers like to use trade valuation guides that are not accessible to the general public so dont really give a realistic value. They dont seem to like owners clubs as members naturally value their pride and joy higher than other people would on mainstream car sales websites.
The insurers dont care if you paid more for it than they think it was worth.

I have used adverts for cars as similar to mine as I can find on the basis that if my car is written off, that is the only indication I have on the price to get another one. The insurers dont seem to like that - asking price can be different to sold price - and will always try to get back to the spec/condition of your actual car the moment before the accident and try their hardest to devalue it. Big variety in mileages does not help but that is just the way it is. Even a respray or suspension refresh or engine rebuild might not make that much difference as there are not many for sale that have had similar work done.

As others have said, the grey imports specs can cause problems, and some insurers base repair cost estimates on uk car parts as some jap parts might not be available. I agree with the others it is unfair to use an N/A to value a turbo car in a claim (as if you insured a turbo car as an N/A they could void the policy due to the performance difference affecting the insured risk).

Then as these cars get older they might get modified (intentionally or because standard parts are no longer available) or there are so few for sale they might value it as a one-off. Good luck with that while it is in a damaged condition!

Market value is often reported to be a can of worms for insurance claims.

[Dame]

I figured that might be the case, I remember the cash for crash scams. The good news is that the insurance company are currently pursuing it as a non-fault claim on my side. The driver admitted fault at the time. It would also be highly illogical for me to get the car fully restored (at great cost) merely three months prior to the incident only to intentionally cause an accident just for a whiplash claim.

I also have the fact that the owner of the logistics company called me, saying his driver was to blame (had given him a bollocking) and then asked me to get a quote for repair and that he would be prepared to pay without making an insurance claim.

Once I'd got the quote and sent it over to him, he decided the cost was too high and that we should go through the insurance. I have the email I sent to him, the quote, along with the text message he sent back when I chased him. This should prove that blame is attributed third party since he would hardly be offering to do this for a non-fault claim. There's also the fact that in over twenty years of driving I have never claimed for anything and if I really was going for cash for crash I'd probably choose a different vehicle.

I'm hoping that since I was hit by a company vehicle rather than a private car they will be more reasonable than a private individual acting alone.

I have to say this experience has really put me off driving anything. I feel like everything is weighed against me and the driver of the other vehicle has got out of it easily. It seems ridiculous for something that wasn't my fault I will lose my car, get a fraction of its value back and then have the ongoing pain of rising insurance premiums for the next five years. Something is very rotten in the state of the vehicle insurance industry!

I'm now working on the basis that they will offer next to nothing for the car. In that case I will buy it back (which should cost very little) and break it. I have a brand new custom exhaust on there which is completely undamaged, new genuine Toyoya HT leads, two new calipers etc. so I think I might be able to get a few quid back.

We were looking to get a family car in addition to the MR2 so I think I will just plough some money into that and put it all down to experience. Maybe one day in the future I'll get another one, but right now, I just want to forget the whole experience.

I'll let you know how I get on with the haggling, might be useful for others.

[HighwayStar]

I think the fact that it's a logistics company is good news for you. Their business is road delivery and therefore their largest vehicle costs are likely to be fuel, leasing then insurance.

Depending on how their commercial policy is termed it may be very much in their interests to avoid claims. The knock on effect to that type of policy could be huge. I wonder how far he's explored that before coming back to you. What might apply to your policy (higher costs) might apply to theirs but to much greater effect.

Might be worth talking again before your claim completes.

Good luck.

PS. It's been said before in this thread but if your own insurers took a premium based on a turbo car legally they must provide recompense for a turbo car. Thats the point of their underwriting.. to assess the combined risks and potential losses and ask for a commensurate premium. They have, you accepted and a contract is in place. Any hassles and threaten them with the ombudsman…. it costs them a fortune in fees whether the complaint is upheld or not.

[rev3gtturbo]

There's also the fact that in over twenty years of driving I have never claimed for anything and if I really was going for cash for crash I'd probably choose a different vehicle.

I had a similarly high number of years of good driving history when I got stitched up. I remember a report on tv that said they tend to use old cars for cash for crash that they can buy cheaply that will get written off in the accident as beyond economic repair. Agree it would be unlikely for someone to use a car they had spent a lot of money doing up as a cash for crash car.

I'm hoping that since I was hit by a company vehicle rather than a private car they will be more reasonable than a private individual acting alone.

Your lucky the company was not a bank. They have expensive well paid lawyers that dont give in easily. Mate of mine had a corvette that had its front wing driven over by a banker in a merc! The banker had decided to do a U turn on a dual carriageway exit slip road! Lawyers tried to blame my mate saying he must have been driving his sporty car too fast and their guy had no chance to see him in time to avoid the colilsion when changing lane or something like that. This was in the days before dashcams and it took ages to settle it. Lawyers like that just try to grind down their opponents into giving up on a claim that either takes too much time and effort to fight or the individual cant afford to fight big lawyers like that.
Actually that reminds me of when I was stitched up... my insurers lawyers didnt want to fight my corner partly because of the reputation of the other side lawyers that dont take on cases they dont think they can win.

I have to say this experience has really put me off driving anything. I feel like everything is weighed against me and the driver of the other vehicle has got out of it easily. It seems ridiculous for something that wasn't my fault I will lose my car, get a fraction of its value back and then have the ongoing pain of rising insurance premiums for the next five years. Something is very rotten in the state of the vehicle insurance industry!
.

Totally agree. You would probably feel the same no matter what car you were driving - Just as well it was not a really expensive car!
You will get over it in time.

[Dame]

Thanks guys for all the advice and comments, it's all really useful. The third party insurer is coming to inspect the car next Wednesday (the fact they are doing this confirms that they accept fault). The car will not be removed so it will stay exactly where it is.

The good news is that having had it inspected by an independent engineer, he said that as far as he could tell the floor hasn't been affected since the lorry effectively went up over the top so there's a good chance that it can be repaired. I've since driven it (drove it down to be inspected) and it seems to drive fine i.e. is straight so that sounds initially promising. I'm going to have to strip down the back end to take a proper look and then get it on a jig to sort any issues but I think I might be able to put the car back together though this is going to be a long term project - I have other fish to fry first!

The annoying aspect is that they'll probably write it off as uneconomical to repair (the quotes always go on brand new parts) and the fact it has been a write off will kill its value which is a bit annoying when you consider that if it was worth considerably more it wouldn't be written off for the same level of damage. To be honest since I've already had it for 18 years I'm not aiming to sell it ever so this isn't likely to be an issue.

I'll let you know how I get on and if I do decide to rebuild it will post on my progress to give you an idea of what's possible and the potential cost.

[HighwayStar]

I had my last 2 for 17yrs so I know how you feel.

Whichever way it goes good luck. I ended up moving on to another 2 after all those years but while it hurt then I don't regret it now…. I have a new relationship to grow with the new car and I'm loving it so far....