4AGE Tuning

[Lauren]

erm... depending on what setup i go for. you can easily get 7-800 hp from this kind of system but obbiously there no point making externals that can produce massive power if no internals are going to withstand it. I might for for 250ish from the 4age then maybe look at a mk2 turbo lump for 700+
Alex

Are you sure, Alex?

Insurance an issue?

250bhp from a 4AGE would require turbocharging, this will not be cheap to install!

[pk_090]

yes i am sure. Insurance is always an issue, but as a demo car for my skills and the business i hope to start up what better things are there to make then well engineered, and though out, high quality itmes which look shiney and go like off a teflon coated shovel. I'm sure that if i couldn't insure such a car there would be a big long queue of people willing to drive it to wherever it needs to go, wouldn't be long until i could get traders insurance which covers modifications (25 if i remember correct.) If i do start this kind of project its going to take some time as i want to do as much of it as possible and actually do the maths to make proof that all the things i do actually works and its not just there for looks or for it do do an adverse effect, so these kind of projects could use alot of time but good things come to those who wait.... Supposedly.
Alex

[cartledge_uk]

What kind of power figures are AGZE and AGE internals good for? Im looking at doing a compound charged AGE ans was told that AGZE internals would hold big power figures, i laughed and said not the power figures im after. What alternatives are there?
Alex

4AG/GZE have the same internals apart from the pistons, so don't think GZE's are stronger.

The strongest internals are the late spec GE's/GZE's from the AE92/101.

As for what stock bottom ends can take, well around 250bhp shouldn't be a big issue.

Yep, just ARP the bolts and you'll be safe to 250bhp

[tottacrolla]

Most of what you need to know to get 160hp is here:

http://www.aeu86.org/viewtopic/tuned-4a ... ed+results

[pk_090]

so uprated headbolts on standard age internals should be good for 230ish?

[cartledge_uk]

so uprated headbolts on standard age internals should be good for 230ish?

Its more about the rod bolts than the headbolts.

To be safe, on my engine I ARP'd headbolts, rod bolts, crank cap bolts and flywheel bolts.

[Lauren]

so uprated headbolts on standard age internals should be good for 230ish?

So come on Alex, what is your spec going to be to build an engine like this? You can't realistically get this with natural aspiration, so you are going to ruin it, by turbocharging it?

[pk_090]

yeah basically, ive been studying compond charging lately, basically blowing a blower, though a blower. So therefore you can have one mahousive trbo capable of 700hp which will start boosting later on in the rev range due to needing more gasses to power it, and one smaller turbo hooked up to this "blowing though" the big one. Ive been thinking for the mk1 a turbo setup with something small from around 140-150 hp (galanza punto turbo renault 5 kind of size hooked up to a scooby turbo good enough for 230+ for a mk1.) For a mk2 turbo id probably look at keeping standard turbo or a similar size as from what i reads it boosts well and low down, hooked up to TD20G.
Alex.

[PW@Woodsport]

That sounds over complicated and it will be very heavy, dare i say it bordering on 3s-gte weight with all of the turbo equipment. I can understand wanting to keep the 4a but i don't get raising its weight to that of a more powerful out of the box engine.

Why not simplify things and just fit a decent supercharger unit and be done with it? That's what i'm doing on my 4a build, no need for compound charging.

It will be ten times easier, weigh less, cost less, and give you the same output. If i understand right the only reason for compound charging is to eliminate lag, and with the SC there isn't any.

Others have tried this and i have to say i don't think it's viable, or if it is it will take up to 10 years to build, also known as the "Gladding" mod

Best of luck though if you decide to stick with it, for me there are much easier, more cost effective and, well, just better ways to do it.

[Mk1Chris]

Speaking from experience, getting one turbo bolted onto a 4a is very tight in an mr2, so 2 might be a bit of a piping nightmare.

Does sound interesting though

[elbon50]

Speaking from experience, getting one turbo bolted onto a 4a is very tight in an mr2, so 2 might be a bit of a piping nightmare.

Does sound interesting though

I suppose it could be possible to modify the bulkhead to make more space in the engine bay ?

Perhaps thats getting a bit extreme though ?

Peter

[coanda]

Paul, what supercharger are you going for then? I was thinking of asking around for an SC14 to put in this winter - I get the feeling you won't be going for one of those?!

[pk_090]

Well peter i like challenges. At the end of the day i am doing this as a challenge to see what happens, i don't even know if compound charging works with smaller turbos. I know it works for high boost turbochargers where the wastegate pressure is massive but on a low pressure turbo im not too sure.
Agreed Paul, the point in the 4AGE is to keep it N/A enjoy reving, and to let it rev, i wasn't built for power but as i have 2 of them (both blue tops) on in the car and one on an engine stand i though why not. If it does work and i can get decent power from it then bonus, If not ive lost some silicone hosing and 2 scrapyard turbo's an aftermarket ecu which ill just re flash and then tubes for the custom manifolds which id just use with bigger turbo's. At the end of the day i like playing with things seeing how they work and how to make them better, Compound charging is abit of a dark horse in the tuning world, not many people know how to do it and the ones that do can get massive power!
Alex

[kaiowas]

I was thinking of asking around for an SC14 to put in this winter

For future reference I believe Tim has one of those going spare.

[PW@Woodsport]

Paul, what supercharger are you going for then? I was thinking of asking around for an SC14 to put in this winter - I get the feeling you won't be going for one of those?!

It's the TRD Scion shaft driven Vortec unit i am fitting, good for 14psi on the right engine, i'll be running it around 5-6 psi, whatever my fuelling will support.

[laam999]

thats for all the replys guys this has been a GREAT help.

I didn't realise so many of you tuned your 4ages, I figured from reading loads of Pauls stuff that swaps where the way forward for the guys here. I'm glad to see that people will be there to help, I have to admit this will be a good while in the future, I have to get the freak back on the road first and I have just (litterally today) put my deposit down on a house (w00p excited) so the tuning is a slow burning thing for as when and as I decide.

It does seem that the extra 10-20 bhp seems so much harder to get it may not be worth, but the point of this proect is to see if I, a total novice can restore a car (doing now) and then rebuild the mechanics.

Also I'd like to say thanks to everyone who always respond to my posts asking for help. seriously, thanks guys ^_^

[Lauren]

You're welcome. Lots of people tune 4AGE's but it seems that this is rare in the MR2 world for some reason which is a real shame. Look at the AE86's and you'll never see a 3SGTE transplant (that'd ruin it! ) but in all seriousness I think it keeps the character of the car and going the old school route of cams and the like is kind of fun and makes a refreshing change from the obiligatory 3SGTE transplant.

My car will be on the rollers in a couple of weeks time, will be interesting to see what it makes, I will be running it up with both ECU's.

[LimeyMk1]

AE86 with a 2zz would work though, you've got to admit that.

Liam, I started as a total novice a few years ago it's just a bit of time and you'll be stripping them down without a second thought. If you want a copy of the toyota repair manual there are lots of folks with a copy if you want it (I've got one).

[Lauren]

AE86 with a 2zz would work though, you've got to admit that.

I've never seen it done though interestingly enough, which says something it itself. I don't think the 2zz engine is a good engine tbh. F20C is more common, but tbh most people keep it 4AGE and go Blacktop 20v which works pretty well or go throttle bodies and cams on the 16v.

[LimeyMk1]

Beams? Surely someones done that.