4AGE Tuning

[laam999]

Ok, I know this won't be as cost affective as a engine swap and will be a little pointless in doing but think of this as a technical exercise for myself.

I want to tune a NA 16v 4AGE engine. I hope to get the output to around 170-180bhp but I have no REAL knowledge of engines and specifics such as measurments.

The way I was hoping to get to this power was going to be the following.

uprated cams, springs and valves (unsure what exact specs will be useable for day to day driving)

more efficient exhause manifaold (unsure where to get this but I assume there is one that will allow gas to flow a little better)

Forged crankshaft, hight compression pistons and lighter forged conrods.

ITBS

lightened flywheel

hight output fuel pump



Ok this is where I'm asking for help and advice with the technical side, I have no idea about the engines details.

I get the basics of how they all fit and work together but when I look for example a crankshaft it says
"Stroke: 77mm

Max HP : 1800HP"

Is that stroke size right for a standard MR2 4AGE? because it can handle a greater power can I make the engine rev higher?

As for pistons, what sizes do I need? How do new pistons increase pressure? If I have higher lift Cams and taller pistons will my engine eat itself?



I'm sorry if this sounds like a stupid post but this is going to be something I plan to build over the next few years for putting in the MR2 when it's rebuilt. The car would be 90% road use so I would like to keep it with a decent amount if not higher low down torque and higher revving higher powered top end.

I'm looking to do all the work myself just to see if I can do, please give me any advice possible.

Thanks

Liam

[PW@Woodsport]

170-180bhp from a 4a-ge in NA form, can i ask what your maximum budget is?

[laam999]

I'd rather spend lower than £5k, I'm not even 100% this is the route I'll go down, I just want the information so I can make the decision best for me.

I figured I could get the parts I said for around £3k but I assumed I have missed a lot of things.

Thanks

Liam

[tottacrolla]

Here is a standard reference page:

http://www.billzilla.org/4agmods.htm#115hp

IMHO it rather simplifies engine preparation and tuning.
180hp normally aspirated is not going to be easy out of a 1600cc engine.

[PW@Woodsport]

Well i think £3k will get you close, but in reality it's probably going to be closer to £4k.

Some really good headwork is essential, and you will need to raise the CR to around 11:1, forged pistons, ARP everything, i'd safeguard the rods by upgrading those as well although i've heard of people running the stock rods at more BHP. I'd also give the crank serious consideration, more for longevity reasons than it being up to the job for the short term and from personal experience tuning always leaves you wanting more, so spend your money on things that will give you an upgrade path.

You'll need some pretty lairy cams, 304* and probably throttle bodies, can't see the stock inlet flowing well enough for that level.

HKS gasket goes without saying, or Mike Tanski at Ferriday engineering will sort you out with a bombproof bi-metallic gasket that's fit and forget.

Not sure on injector sizing but i'd guess at 300cc min and a decent ECU (solaris maybe) plus a few days in the capable hands of Ryan G.

You'll be looking at tuning the intake length, and a tubular exhaust manifold.

A Fidanza/uprated clutch goes without saying.

I'm tuning my own 4a right now so i know what a money pit they can be, there are much easier ways for more power as we all know, but i hope the above helps and wish you luck.

[kaiowas]

I would have thought stock 42mm rods and crank should be ok for that kind of power as the 4A-GZE uses the same parts and people get that sort of power out them on a regular basis.

[PW@Woodsport]

Yes i agree, but if i was spending megabucks on a 4a i'd want there to be an upgrade path later on, in for a penny in for a pound as they say.

[Lauren]

Have a look on the AE86 forums as tuning NA's is very popular there.

Also club4ag, aeu86.org, eightsix.co.uk

If I was you I wouldn't chase bhp figures, I'd aim at a good tractable engine with a strong top end. Given you are going to use it on the road, aim a little lower, around the 160bhp which is far easier to attain and ought to be more realistic in getting a good usable engine, rather than one that only produces any power north of 6000rpm.

[tottacrolla]

As above Lauren is right, 160hp is relatively easy to obtain and should keep the engine reliable and tractable.
180hp is going to need very high revs and that will create a small power band in turn meaning a close ratio gearbox may be neccesary.

Whilst Toyota were still having to consider emissions the 20v engines
pretty much sum up what is achievable reliably and there seems to some debate as to whether they actually make the power figures quoted by Toyota.

[bobbyh]

What would be the cheapest & easiest way to 160bhp?

That would be a nice, kick the back-end out amount of grunt!

[LimeyMk1]

What would be the cheapest & easiest way to 160bhp?

That would be a nice, kick the back-end out amount of grunt!

A 3SGE from a rev 3 MK2. (opens can of worms)

From a 4AGE, eeerrrr pass.

[elbon50]

What would be the cheapest & easiest way to 160bhp?

That would be a nice, kick the back-end out amount of grunt!

A 3SGE from a rev 3 MK2. (opens can of worms)

From a 4AGE, eeerrrr pass.

This link seems to give a lot of useful info re various levels of upgrade

http://www.billzilla.org/4agmods.htm#115hp

If I understand correctly 3SGE would give the 160 BHP but would alter the character of the car ??

Wouldn't feel like a MK1 any more

Peter

[LimeyMk1]

Aye 'tis a good site that but difficult to put prices on the bits in some cases.

Cams - New about £4-500
ECU - You really don't need anything uber special so about £400 for a second hand one
Headwork - Will depend on the engineer I suppose.
Bigger injectors - find out what size you need and buy some from e-bay then get them reconditioned.
Tuning - If you get someone to do it it'll cost a few hundred, this may influence your ECU choice as well as some tuners have their favourite ECUs and won't touch any other ones .
TRD Head gasket - May as well plop one on while you're in there, gives a nice torque boost low down but watch out for det.

Removing the TVIS won't cost anything more than a tube of liquid metal. I think that's pretty much the bare minimum for 160BHP.

Re the character change the 3SGE has the same rev range as the 4AGE and doesn't weigh much more than a 4AGE so I don't think it would alter the character at all.

Anyhoo that's totally OT.

[elbon50]

Perhaps when members talk about character change they are thinking more of the 3SGTE ?

Turbo lag & all that ?

Peter

[pk_090]

What kind of power figures are AGZE and AGE internals good for? Im looking at doing a compound charged AGE ans was told that AGZE internals would hold big power figures, i laughed and said not the power figures im after. What alternatives are there?
Alex

[LimeyMk1]

Getting the crank balanced and treated (cryo) would up it's tolerances some, otherwise it'll be a case of looking for a forged steel crank (mucho dollar). What are you aiming for Alex?

[LimeyMk1]

http://www.briancrower.com/makes/toyota ... oker.shtml

$3400

Dunno if this is still valid:

http://www.toysport.com/catalog/parts%2 ... e/4AGE.htm

[pk_090]

erm... depending on what setup i go for. you can easily get 7-800 hp from this kind of system but obbiously there no point making externals that can produce massive power if no internals are going to withstand it. I might for for 250ish from the 4age then maybe look at a mk2 turbo lump for 700+
Alex

[Lauren]

What would be the cheapest & easiest way to 160bhp?

That would be a nice, kick the back-end out amount of grunt!

ITB's, standalone ECU, cams in the 272 range of duration. Also things like an exhaust manifold and system.

A high compression bottom end would certainly help you on your way.

[Lauren]

What kind of power figures are AGZE and AGE internals good for? Im looking at doing a compound charged AGE ans was told that AGZE internals would hold big power figures, i laughed and said not the power figures im after. What alternatives are there?
Alex

4AG/GZE have the same internals apart from the pistons, so don't think GZE's are stronger.

The strongest internals are the late spec GE's/GZE's from the AE92/101.

As for what stock bottom ends can take, well around 250bhp shouldn't be a big issue.