Engine Rebuild Parts/Cost?

[NoSkill]

I'm about to take my MR2 off the road due to shot piston rings and a nice oil leak that's been rapidly getting worse.

Although I'm not 100% decided on keeping the MR2 yet (it's a little tired and will cost a fair bit to get back to a good condition, certainly more than it's 'worth'...) I'd like to get a rough idea on how much it'll cost to fix, but the one thing I'm not sure about is the Engine.

It seems I could get a second hand engine for around £2-300 for an unknown one off the bay, but I'm also contemplating rebuilding my current one (assuming the piston rings being shot hasn't damaged the bores or anything, but won't know that until I strip it I guess).

I've never done this before so I was wondering if I decide to go down this route what exactly would 'need' changing (even if they're not dead yet, things like bearings/seals that are a good idea to change), how much they'd cost and where I can get them from.

So far I've thought of the following:
Big and small end bearings
iirc there's an oil seal between crank and gearbox?
bearings and oil seals for the cams (ignoring the budget tuning thread here and sticking with stock, maybe ¬_¬)
valve stem oil seals
piston rings (obviously :p)

Guessing potential cost for shims and probably other stuff when it comes around to putting it all back together, plus a full gasket set (ebay has ones for ~£70, are these a bad idea?)

Anything else?

Also I'm guessing once it's all stripped down I'll need to take it <somewhere> to be cleaned up nicely, any ideas how much this would be?

Oh, and am I mad for even considering this?

I did consider some engine conversions, but I want the car as a daily driver for ~400 miles a week and the current ~38-42mpg or so that I'm getting is quite nice :p

[Tiamat]

You can get engines for less than that if you are prepared to wait.

The problem with a rebuild is you are likely to end up spending a lot more money than getting a second hand engine.

From memory you will pay the following:

£70 Big end bearing
£40 Gasket set

Shims you can get from the MK1 shim bank, so wouldn't have to worry too much about them.

But its not just the gaskets, you will need to replace the head bolts as well, which will also mean ensuring you put everything to the right torque.

You are also advised to skim the head to make sure you get a good seal, but not sure of the cost of that.

Whilst never one to discourage people from tryign something, it all depends on what you want from the car and how long you intend to keep it.

Have you spoken to any of the affiliates here about whether they have any 4AGEs lying around? Woodsport are always ripping them out

[NoSkill]

Yeah, I'm fairly sure getting another engine would be cheaper (and certainly easier :p)

I've kept the car for ~5 years so far, and I do love it, when I finally decided she needed a brief rest I was initially thinking of getting rid and replacing with <something else> but couldn't really think of anything for the £2-3k I could possibly save whilst borrowing another car that I actually wanted over the mr2, hence considering fixing her.

And that's kinda my point with the rebuild, partially it'd be 'interesting' to me, but also as I'd know the history of the engine and that (assuming I don't mess it up) it should then last me a good while with no problems should I keep the car for another 5 years.

Not spoken to any affiliates yet, I was planning to speak to Woodsport about a replacement, until I got the mad idea to rebuild the current one, might fire off an email or several this evening just to get an idea of what they'd charge, and whether they'd be willing to supply simply an engine or a 'reconditioned' one.

I've got a replacement car now for a while, so there's no urgency in making a decision, I'm just trying to find out as much as possible

[monkeymax]

Hiya,
I've been rebuilding my 4AGZE. Costs will be slightly higher than for the 4AGE, but not hugely so. Here's my costing for parts:

Engine internals (piston rings, bearings, thrust washers, woodruff key) which are Toyota originals (cost £184.94)
The Toyota gasket set (cost £120.52) (I don't trust the eBay set for headgasket, ended up just buying the whole set from Toyota)
ARP headbolts and main bolts (over £100)
Exedy Clutch (£124)
OEM spec (but not Toyota) new waterpump, cambelt and idler pulley (£68.62).
Oil pump (Toyota): £90

So that's over £500 straight off. Another £170 for block & head-work at the machine shop (rehone block, skim surfaces, proper clean up, replace valve stem seals, etc).

Hopefully that'll give you some guideline to what a rebuilt 4AGE will cost you. However, bear in mind also the peace of mind for knowing you should then have a fully reliable engine!!

[Bender Unit]

You will spend vastly more than what a good replacement would cost - it will require alot more effort and messing around and once your done you have no gurantee's that your efforts will be repaid. Rebuilds go wrong.

If your already mulling over the possibility of selling the car then a few months of you having it up on bricks in bits on your driveway whilst you rebuild the engine will make you wish you had never bothered and want rid of the lot.

If the engine is farked, just sell it on in its current state and let the new owner do the work or alternativley get a good second and swap the engines over.

If your interested about the workings of the engine you can then break the broken one down at your leisure!

[LimeyMk1]

I'd have to dig out all the receipts from when I did mine but I'd reckon on it costing a couple of hundred in parts.

A full engine set from Toyota will come with all the gaskets you need and stem seals but will remove the best part of £150 from your wallet. I'd avoid the ebay sets as some of the gaskets in the set are pap to be honest.

The work on the head and block you could do yourself to a point (valve reseating and honing the block) if you're feeling up to it. But DO get them cleaned afterwards. Resurfacing the head will need to be done professionally but won't be too expensive (last one cost me £30). To get a company to do the valves, skim and clean cost me about £150 the first time I had one done. (yes I've done it a couple of times now )

Bearings, as Malc said, are about £70 for the big ends. Main bearings I can't quite remember but I think they were cheaper (about £50).

Other things to do would be to get your injectors cleaned (£11 each) and replace all the service items. Cam belt & tensioner, fuel filter, oil filter, water pump etc. these I'd get from an auto factors/online store rather than Toyota.

As far as the process of taking it all apart and reassembling it's not difficult, just take your time and make sure you have a space where you can store everything together (I taped the bolts to the components) where sticky fingers won't go and Fathers won't decide to repot their plants.

You will probably need to add to your tool box with piston ring compressor, torque wrench, pullers, stem seal pliers, valve lapper and honing tool. But if you're not too far from me I could lend them to you.

HTH

Chris

[oukie]

Or you could buy a good known engine wink:

From a mk1 club members car that was invoved in a heavy front end accident and was beyond repair.

Engine is perfect and has covered 100k with history, engine is in perfect working order.

PM me if interested

Chris.

[NoSkill]

monkeymax, Cheers for the list, some things on there I hadn't thought of and very useful to have some more known prices.

With the ARP bolts were the main bolts needed or just a 'nice to have'?

Bender Unit, I know it'll cost more, and that it can go wrong, but it's still tempting

The selling bit was only as the mr2 reached it's current stage and I was exploring all options, although it's not decided yet what I'll do if I do anything on the mr2 then I'll keep it for the foreseeable future, I won't be selling it within a couple of years of the rebuild/replacement.

On that note, I've not completely discounted a simple replacement, and that gives me a broken engine to break/rebuild as/when I feel like it, rather than needing to to get the car back on the road...

Limeymk1, Thanks for the list of tools, only got torque wrench out of those so something to think about

I've got a garage that's all mine so (once I've cleared it out a bit) space shouldn't be an issue, was planning to get an engine stand if I do this and also got a table in the garage and plan to put up some shelving for storage.

oukie, I might be interested, PM sent

Cheers, Josh.

[monkeymax]

monkeymax, Cheers for the list, some things on there I hadn't thought of and very useful to have some more known prices.

With the ARP bolts were the main bolts needed or just a 'nice to have'?

I got them from another user who was selling them on (unused obviously) along with the headbolts so I bought both sets. They were just a nice to have, but just putting them side by side with the original Toyota ones you can tell a difference in quality. The original bolts would be fine though.

It's been a difficult process only because of a lack of time for me. At times, it's been heart-breaking and I've been tempted to break the car for parts. But, would I do it again? (admittedly I've still not finished this one yet, but mostly done) Yes, it was fun and I learnt a lot. But I wouldn't do it again without my own space (which you seem to have already which is good) and no limit on how long it'll take.

Good luck whatever route you choose!

[jnoiles]

No idea on doing myself but Coggi is building the engine for my aw11 race car: http://mr2racing.8.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=1805

The engines look the business, have been at the pointy end of the field this year and sound excellent when they fly past you

[kaiowas]

No idea on doing myself but Coggi is building the engine for my aw11 race car: http://mr2racing.8.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=1805

The engines look the business, have been at the pointy end of the field this year and sound excellent when they fly past you

The 4A-GZE in our track car needs some rebuild work this winter. At that price i'm seriously tempted as by the time I've taken into account what I'm likely to spend on tools and parts, plus the 'fun' of spending the winter in a cold garage added to the risk of me screwing something up it makes it sound like good value!

[PW@Woodsport]

Not spoken to any affiliates yet, I was planning to speak to Woodsport about a replacement, until I got the mad idea to rebuild the current one, might fire off an email or several this evening just to get an idea of what they'd charge, and whether they'd be willing to supply simply an engine or a 'reconditioned' one.

Hi, i'll save you some time, we don't do general repairs or even straight engine changes at Woodsport, we only do the crazy conversion stuff. On top of that we have a 3 month waiting list for conversion work, so i wouldn't be able to take it on anyway, very sorry.

[aw11rally]

Where is this Coggi fella based?

The engine in our rally car could do with a rebuild (and some high(er) comp pistons).

[NoSkill]

jnoiles, that does seem a very good price for a rebuild, I'll have to bookmark that at least :p

Paul, I would just be looking for an engine, rather than you doing any work? But not sure what happens to any 4age's you take out when doing the crazy conversions

I picked up my long term loan car from my parents last night, a xsara hdi, I'm missing the mr2 already so very tempted to go the replacement engine route now to save some time :p

[jnoiles]

Where is this Coggi fella based?

He's based up in Barnsley.

www.cogsport.co.uk <-- contact details

I'm going for the £1100 engine rebuild. He does other specs as well, you can add/remove components etc but I'm limited in that regard by series regs.

[SuperRedMR2]

Luckily I got a fully rebuilt race prepped engine from Rogue Motorsport for £500, but it cost them well over that to rebuild it!

[vashy]

I had a similar dilemma with another car. I would get a replacement engine and swap it in, especially if the car is your daily. Then you can take your time rebuilding your current engine. It gives you more options, you can chuck it no problem if the bores are shot, or tune it if it looks good (:

[mk1 dal]

hi i have built 2 a4ge engines now , i had piston rings fail on number 1 and 4 ports this is what i found .







the second build was on a engine i got for £30 , with 109000 recorded miles ,it cost me around £400 to do ,this included rings , main and big end shells ,full head set ,cam belts +pully the head skim was done at work so didn't cost anything .

pics

















i would check the damage to your engine first and go from there , if you buy a second hand engine it will still have worn big ends and rings anyway ,if you are keeping the car rebuild the engine it will save money in the long run . it took me 2 weeks from buying the engine to droping it in and running so it doesen't take long if you stick at it . so go for it , you cant beat building it your self and hearing it fire in to life .

[NoSkill]

mk1 dal, nice pistons

I'm fairly sure I'm gonna go replacement for speed and rebuild my current one over time (possibly/probably going a bit silly and getting cams etc), I've got some points/ban on my licence which the insurance will count for test rest of this year and another year as well, so probably would struggle to get insured on a modified car cheaply until they go anyway...

The car is/was my daily (doing ~370 miles a week, assuming 'just' to the office and back), but I've got this xsara for an indefinite period of time basically so there's no massive hurry

[Cogsport]

Where is this Coggi fella based?

The engine in our rally car could do with a rebuild (and some high(er) comp pistons).

Im based in Barnsley South Yorkshire which is under a foot of snow at the minute!