3S-GTE Oil pump problems. HELP!

[janiK]

I have serious problems with my mr2 oil pump.
Oil pump starts to eat itself. Gears and housing have both deep scratches and holes. After that whole engine is full scratches because of overall metal xxxx, camshaft bearings are worst.
Now already happend two times for me. Both times I have been found this before total brake down but anyway damages are huge.
Not very nice see this again.

Does anyone else got these problems?

Engine is 500hp and 8000rpm, gen3 3S-GTE with original oil pump and sump.
Both times I drove only about 3 thousand miles after total rebuilding and cleaning.
Oil level have been allways more than half level.
Used oil: Kendal 20w-50 (brown) and if I remember correctly type is GT1.
Oil pressures move round 75-100psi and I all ways warm it up well before kicking it hardly(oil pressures can be go over 100psi with rpm:s when oil is cold)

Anyway there must be something badly wrong.
Car have modified also fast to cornering and I use to drive race tracks and timeattack in club series.
Now only option what comes to my mind is that oil moves too much in sump and pump sucks air in fast corners to right and with high rpm.

Anyone got this kind of problems?
Ideas?

I have heard times ago some kind of oilpump modifications. It was about reinforced or race model oil pump.
Anyone knows about this option:
why they change pump? where i can buy one? what is the difference?

[cantfindausername]

Sounds like the engine was already contaminated from the first time it happened.

500bhp, 8000rpm and racing or not, the stock sump has been proven to be no problem.

The Oil Pressure seems a little high to me, even if the oil is cold.

If you're stripping it down again I would get all parts stripped and cleaned properly and inspect them closely for any remains. Take them to somewhere with a parts washer and ask them to just leave them in there for a week or so, or to be put in with any washes they do. I did this with my head due to the baked on oil and it really came out clean. A good number of washes rather than 1 should help to ensure that any contamination is out. Also air blasting the galleys etc might be an idea too.

[GTS GAV]

i hav just had the identicle problem as you mate

my story whent sumthin like this

was on my way to this years jabbash when i got to the entrance the car stated to run weird and dropped a cylender smoke etc

i checked the engine for faults no go
after more investigating i found cylender 3 was full of oil not good

after i had my engine stripped down we noticed the crank was scorred aswell as the cams head was ruiened,then we noticed the turbo had serious play it was only fitted last year was brand new hybrid stage2 from turbo technics we sent that off to them to hav a look to wich thay came back and said it was unrebuildable needless to say i was pi$$ed!

we noticed the head gasket had also gone,and then went on to the oil pump with the identicle failure to yours i just assumed it was due to it being the original from new an had just given up the ghost
but after reading you write up im thinkin this maybe a serieous issue that needs addressing, my engine to had only been rebuilt recently by the previous owner just 5000miles ago but im not creating tremendus bhp just a light 300ish but as im deciding to go for forged pistons uprated rods bearings garret t30, this is goin to worry me when driving that this might happen again wich im not compfatable with.........

i wounder if anyone else has sufferd this fate of the death of the oil pump so soon after the engine has just been rebuilt?????

is there an aftermarket pump available???

[3S Service Centre]

As Ant says, this is contamination.
James

[GTS GAV]

but mine hadnt had oil pump failure before when it was rebuilt so cudnt be contaminated, but oviously the damage to my crank etc was due to contamination in the oil after the pump had started to fail.

is there not an aftermarket oil pump available?

[cantfindausername]

There are aftermarket pumps available. TOGA do one, Chico Race Works do a shimmed pump I think too. Do you really need an aftermarket pump though? Would they be any better than a stock item?

Had the newly built engine had the oil changes it required?

[janiK]

I can't believe to contamination.
Everything was taken to pieces and did clean it very careful. Damaged parts: pistons, bearings oil pump, pressure valve changed. Block got bigger boring and camshafts got chrome coating to bearings. Only place what I couldn't fix to perfect was damaged camshaft bearings on cylinder head but I cleaned them good as I can and slightly dropped stands because worning. Anyway I can't see any problem with these stands now.

I have started to think that oil really moves in fast right corner to fly wheel end in bottom of engine and pump start suck air.
There is small holes in pump gears which can be cause of air. I think that example 6000-7000rpm in fast right corner and 1-2 seconds without oil could kill the pump.

Does anyone knows someone who race track with mr2 with semislicks or slicks?
Are they driving with original oil sumps or build something extra in race cars?

[3S Service Centre]

lol ant I guess we aint qualified

[ashley]

Does anyone knows someone who race track with mr2 with semislicks or slicks?
Are they driving with original oil sumps or build something extra in race cars?

All the MR2 championship cars run on R888's, and I believe they do not use baffled sumps or modified oil pumps.


Maybe a dumb question- but did you have your rocker cover sandblasted when you cleaned everything?

[janiK]

All the MR2 championship cars run on R888's, and I believe they do not use baffled sumps or modified oil pumps.


Maybe a dumb question- but did you have your rocker cover sandblasted when you cleaned everything?

I use to drive also R888 and race cars are lighter = faster in corners so shouldn't be problem for me also.

Sorry but I'm not original english and can't understand: "rocker cover".
Do you mean same as i named to "camshaft bearing stands".
If you mean same place i went these bearing stands trough with thin sandpaper.

[cantfindausername]

lol ant I guess we aint qualified

Well my toga pump and baffled moroso sump would disqualify my findings anyway lol.

[ashley]

Rocker cover = cam shaft cover

The cover you bolt on the top of the engine that covers the camshafts. People sometimes have them sandblasted before painting.

[janiK]

...If you mean same place i went these bearing stands trough with thin sandplast.

Ou sh*t. I mix up terms. I ment to say I used thin sandpaper.

Rocker cover is glassball blasted before varnish and you think I didn't clean it after that?

[cantfindausername]

There have been stories of people having them "professionally" cleaned only to find that they're not empty of all the blast which accumulates behind the baffles and then finds its way back into the engine, thus causing a sandy oil mix = dead engine.

[3S Service Centre]

Ahem - Contamination

[ashley]

Agreed- just trying to point out how 'cleaning' the components before assembly may not guarantee no contaminants

Seen a few (non toyota) engines scrapped through ill advised shot blasting of cam covers

[3S Service Centre]

Agreed- just trying to point out how 'cleaning' the components before assembly may not guarantee no contaminants

Seen a few (non toyota) engines scrapped through ill advised shot blasting of cam covers

Yep all too common unfortunately

:

[janiK]

Forget now contamination, it's not real option.

First rebuilding was made from clean engine and made by race team from neighbor which has build plenty of street 3s engines and also raced 10 years with toyotas 3s-gt (IMSA) engines in supersaloon and drag race dragster. At the moment they drive FHRA nitrous. Their mr2 toys: endurance 3s-ge mr2 or street/track rev2 turbo mr2 haven't got these problems but both of those run only with normal street tires. You can try to tell those guys that you left xxxx inside of motor.

I did count also 1+1 after first damage and I cleaned all very well before rebuilding second time to make sure it won't happend again. Now pump has started again same work but less.
I just wanted to hear British opinion because driving championship serie with mr2:s and I tought that you may have something nice to know.

Why "cantfindausername" do use moroso sump if original is GOOD?

I found smart guys from other forum who told me that:
3s-gte gen3 needs to have always oil at maximum level when driving track because it's very easily starts to suck air because poor sump.
This happens also to many other engines if driving with semislicks and level is not full.
3s-gte engines oil ducts from the head to the sump are not enought and sump needs to have extra gasping pipes.

My failures:
-I drove track with semislicks and half oil level
-I used thick oils which comes back to sump more slowly and because bad breathing => oil lever even more low than with thinner oils in use

[cantfindausername]

I use the moroso for the extra capacity and cooling properties. Its not a "must have" upgrade, but seeing as I was replacing everything apart from the crank, I thought I'd go that extra bit further.

My failures:
-I drove track with semislicks and half oil level
-I used thick oils which comes back to sump more slowly

Perhaps you've answered your own questions?

If you know you were low on oil, why did you track your car? Why did you use thicker oil to that which is recommended?

[janiK]

I use the moroso for the extra capacity and cooling properties. Its not a "must have" upgrade, but seeing as I was replacing everything apart from the crank, I thought I'd go that extra bit further.

My failures:
-I drove track with semislicks and half oil level
-I used thick oils which comes back to sump more slowly

Perhaps you've answered your own questions?

If you know you were low on oil, why did you track your car? Why did you use thicker oil to that which is recommended?

As I told few guys just gave for me these answers.
I did not understand that limit is so near and there is risk if give level drop to half ...so my stupidy.
This race team what I mentioned have recommend so hardly to use this kendal because of its quality. Sure is that it's so thick that oil filter wont clean oil after pump and xxxx goes straight every where to engine from pump. Needs to cahange to TWS 10W-60 castrol.