Mad idea?

[crazybrightman]

hi ive been thinking about my track car, it needs less weight, more power and sequential gearbox would be lovely ok so thats all silly money then? well then i went you tubing and happened to come across an abundance of bike engined cars, theres my answer!
now has it been done before on a mk1? i cant see why it would be that hard all i need is some sort of diff as obviously bikes dont have these and fitting it all into the space shouldnt be a problem at all

now am i mad or does this sound feasable to anyone else?

cheers, neil.

[WeirdNeville]

Sounds very feisable,
main problem is that bike engines are big on power but low on torque, and AW11's aren't exactly the lightest things going. Get a turbo 'busa engine in it though and it sure will shift! You could always use a chain driven diff to drop the final drive ratio and get more torque from the engines high rpm.

I've been helping out build a Dax Rush MC with a Yamaha R1 engine. It's going to tip the scales at 450Kg, and has 150Bhp. Now THAT's performance!

[crazybrightman]

oh yeah forgot to add it will be turbo'd everything i own has to be turbo, probably run it as it is to begin with though. i was just looking up those chain drive diffs as would make altering the gearing easy peasy.

[kevin..in]

MK1 is way too heavy, to get any reasonable performance you will need to spend big money

[PW@Woodsport]

agree with all of the above,plus a 3s-gte engined mk1 would stomp all over it anyway and is now a well trodden path to getting serious performance out of a mk1.

[Icsunonove]

Neil, I don't think it's a totally mad idea but it would work out very expensive I think. Also I believe these turbocharged bike engines are a bit fragile. And you can buy a 3S-GTE for peanuts and get the same performance. Just my 2ps worth you understand....

[crazybrightman]

i was worried about the weight thing too but theres a fewe larger cars running turbo bike engines includng mk1 and 2 escorts and they must weigh about as much as a mk1 surely? may sound odd but the 3sgte route is too well trodden nowt new to do there plus i have a semi hatred of the things after having to change god knows how many 3sge engines over the years, not the engines fault just they do require spot on maintance otherwise they give up.
ill have to see what the torque output is with a turbo'd engine as im sure the stnadard bike engine is only arounf 90ft'lb, anyone know what the standard 4age output is?

[kevin..in]

i was worried about the weight thing too but theres a fewe larger cars running turbo bike engines includng mk1 and 2 escorts and they must weigh about as much as a mk1 surely? may sound odd but the 3sgte route is too well trodden nowt new to do there plus i have a semi hatred of the things after having to change god knows how many 3sge engines over the years, not the engines fault just they do require spot on maintance otherwise they give up.
ill have to see what the torque output is with a turbo'd engine as im sure the stnadard bike engine is only arounf 90ft'lb, anyone know what the standard 4age output is?

probably best to go to one of the kit car forums (westfield?) for bike engine/tuning info
my nephew has just built a westfield megablade, but is now building a car engined version for the very reason that torque is an issue even in a featherweigh kit car
fit one to a weighty MK1 and be prepared for regular cluch replacement

[monkeymax]

I think that the 4AGE as standard (and new) peaked at around the 130Nm mark - so around 96ft'ib. Not much more than the standard bike engine you quote, though I'd really like to see the source of that value as it sounds high (though admittedly the 4AGE has low torque).

It's something I've looked into in the past as well - not for the MR2 though, but for a slightly lighter car.
I also looked at mating a pair of motorbike engines through some of the methods some people use - this gets into very difficult to do territory though as well as not being hugely reliable.

I have to say, after everything I found I considered it not worthwhile. You'd need to spend a fair bit to equal the sort of power & torque you'd get from a 3SGTE, which seemed a bit silly to me. Not to mention the fact you'd be revving it like crazy all the time to get to the powerband you need for the weight of having it attached to the car, and suddenly they're not so reliable either...

Maybe the 3SGTE isn't for you, but what about an alternative car engine?

Edit: Don't get me wrong - I'd absolutely love to see this done, and can fully understand your reasons for doing it... but I looked into it in seriousness and ended up deciding there were better options...

[WeirdNeville]

I always thought a 2.2 VTEC lump would go well, but you seem to want turbos....

Pulsars SR20DET?

[Tiamat]

a 3s-gte engined mk1 would stomp all over it anyway and is now a well trodden path to getting serious performance out of a mk1.

That would all depend on what bike engine you put in and whether you went down the supercharger / turbo charger / twin charger route with a bike engine. You can also get NOS fitted to it.

However the comparitive costs would outweight putting in a 3SGTE without any doubt.

[halflife]

Has anyone fitted a type R super charged engine to a MK1? I know they do a conversion for an Elise which is good for about 315bhp and you end up with something very reliable (Honda engineering and all that). My mates Aerial Atom has the same set up and although about 1/2 the weight of the MK1 if that is anything to go by it would sure make a good combination.

If I had the time and the money wouldn't mind giving it a go. Sadly though unless I start selling off some of my children’s vital organs I don’t think I will be doing it for while

[TheCraig]

A Honda engine in a Toyota

A quick google suggests that Mk1 Escorts are about 800kgs so quite a bit lighter than a mk1 MR2

Personally a bike engine is not a route I would take unless it was combined with a tubular space frame and composite panels

[monkeymax]

A Honda engine in a Toyota

At least it's still Jap rather than a European imposter...

[PW@Woodsport]

one of our twobrutal members has a vtec in his mk1

[crazybrightman]

ok thanks for the feedback guys. i must add this is purely a track car so its a bit lighter than standard probably high 800's by the time ive done. the torqu i quoted was for a stock hayabusa dont forget its only 300cc smaller than a 4age and in a higher state of tune so the torque wouldnt be far off really. they way its looking and the simplest option would be to do a full on turbo conversion to the 4age as this would be lighter than any larger car engine transplant and still reliably put out 200-300bhp depending how i go about it. only thing is pistons really high comp ones seem easyily avaliable low comp ones not so. this wont be happening till the end of the year anyhow as i want to use it for a bit first otherwise im always stuck at the project stage and have no fun

[rootes]

ok thanks for the feedback guys. i must add this is purely a track car so its a bit lighter than standard probably high 800's by the time ive done. the torqu i quoted was for a stock hayabusa dont forget its only 300cc smaller than a 4age and in a higher state of tune so the torque wouldnt be far off really. they way its looking and the simplest option would be to do a full on turbo conversion to the 4age as this would be lighter than any larger car engine transplant and still reliably put out 200-300bhp depending how i go about it. only thing is pistons really high comp ones seem easyily avaliable low comp ones not so. this wont be happening till the end of the year anyhow as i want to use it for a bit first otherwise im always stuck at the project stage and have no fun

also the 4age engine is a lump in itself (though light from an iron block) and constributes to the mk1 being heavy... 50-60kg more than a 1.6 K series

[crazybrightman]

ok thanks for the feedback guys. i must add this is purely a track car so its a bit lighter than standard probably high 800's by the time ive done. the torqu i quoted was for a stock hayabusa dont forget its only 300cc smaller than a 4age and in a higher state of tune so the torque wouldnt be far off really. they way its looking and the simplest option would be to do a full on turbo conversion to the 4age as this would be lighter than any larger car engine transplant and still reliably put out 200-300bhp depending how i go about it. only thing is pistons really high comp ones seem easyily avaliable low comp ones not so. this wont be happening till the end of the year anyhow as i want to use it for a bit first otherwise im always stuck at the project stage and have no fun

also the 4age engine is a lump in itself (though light from an iron block) and constributes to the mk1 being heavy... 50-60kg more than a 1.6 K series

lmao how can you compare a 4age to a k series! those things are an utter pile of poop! but i see your point. what are the 190 1.8vvti engine like weight wise?

[midenginedmaniac]

How much torque does a MK1 engine put out ?

A busa engine would be a blast.

It has 100 ft/lb torque and 180 BHP.

[Icsunonove]

Neil,

Have you considered any other engines? One I was looking at is the Audi / VW 1.8 20v turbo unit. It can produce an awful lot of power and looks very compact indeed. I got the thought / idea from Steve Gugliemi's Elise S1. It's a very neat and compact installation indeed!