One reason to invest in a roll cage

[jonb-]

This is one of the more impressive crashes i've seen with the driver walking away from.

I'm seriously considering investing in a HANS device at the very least, my helmet can hook up to one, i just need the right seat.

http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/e ... lipmp4.flv

http://www.racefan.com/results.asp?trac ... yid=191120

[sutats]

Imagine getting hit by that chunk of spinning metal.

"When it was all said and done, I came to a stop upside down. I was still in the seat, and the first thing I noticed was my right shoe was off. I blew my right shoe off and my right glove somehow."

Geewiz! Fortunately the driver escaped unscathed.

[Lauren]

Tbh though, racing is a very different ballgame from trackdays. Yes, i guess anything can happen... but trackdays are far less likely to result in an incident. Car to car contact almost never happens on trackdays whereas its quite likely in a race... and this is what causes most of the accidents.

[jonb-]

But trackdays are a bunch of rank amatures where as those guys are supposed pros.

That kind of accident 'almost never happens' in racing, doesn't mean it won't. Rather be safe than sorry, at least considering how cheap HANS devices are and how fragile the neck is in that situation.

[skinthespin]

A hans device and a roll cage ina track car is pretty extreme jon, like Lauren says car to car contact is a rarity on trackdays, remember this is those guys living and they MUST win, you just wouldnt put yourself if that situation on a track (hopefully - and if you do you shouldn't be on a trackday!), people spin off all the time but a single vehicle accident is rarely any more than a pain because you scuffed your bodywork and have to spend half a day getting gravel out of bits of your car you didn't know you had.

You tried knitting?

[jont]

Are you still planning to drive to and from track days in a caged car? Unless you're also planning to wear a helmet on the drive to/from, aren't you more likely to be involved in an accident on the road where a cage might do more harm than good? Just a thought.

[tonigmr2]

The thing that strikes me about this accident is the 'ramp' in the grass, if it'd have been flat surely this take off and spin wouldn't have happened.

Rollcages in road cars with padding should be OK.
T

[jonb-]

I'm a bit surprised at the negative comments towards HANs, to me it's a no brainer.

Forgetting the most recent TOC day, the past 2 trackdays i've been to i've seen cars on their roof (laughably a rented yaris at bedford) and the time before that someone clipped a wall resulting in a bit of a mess.

The most common injury from any sort of bump, scrape or crash even at low speed on the road seems to be a sore neck, and for the sake of a few hundred quid or so why wouldn't you protect yourself?

This clip shows an impact from 31mph.



Not sure about you but i know which side i'd rather be and the potential speed of a track bump is far higher.

Perhaps I'm just being a 'sissy' but i know if i get the cash i'll have one.

[Rogue]

Next time I upgrade my racing kit, I'll be going HANS. The system has a lot to recommend it.

Not sure I'd bother with the expense in a trackday car though.

Rogue

[Quigonjay]

the past 2 trackdays i've been to i've seen cars on their roof .

only been on one trackday and saw someone on there roof

[ribbo]

The thing that strikes me about this accident is the 'ramp' in the grass, if it'd have been flat surely this take off and spin wouldn't have happened.

i thought it would have been obvious why the ramp was there, so the car could launch over the trackjoining piece of tarmac dukes of hazzard stylee incase anything was parked there, im sure theres some obscure track health and safety ruling somewhere shame they had to find out on one of those pesky front engined cars that ploughed nose first into the grass that kind of thing never happens in the movies

[skinthespin]

im not calling you a sissy jon, after all your much bigger than me--lol

I thought the hans device was designed to help mainly in a straight on crash, to stop you snapping your spine at the base of the neck, it certainly wont do any harm having one but don't you think it may be overkill for a trackday car, even on slicks?

[paul port]

Actually in front on impacts, the steering wheel will probably limit the head extension – it’s off angle frontal impacts that are dangerous, as the head will miss the wheel, and extend further!

Ok, so I agree that you should not skimp on safety equipment, but just be aware that a helmet WITH hans mounting points will cost ~300 + VAT and the Hans 550+VAT
Finally the Hans is useless without a proper harness, and even seat to position the belts.

Paul

[skinthespin]

Actually in front on impacts, the steering wheel will probably limit the head extension – it’s off angle frontal impacts that are dangerous, as the head will miss the wheel, and extend further!

Well, not really, Jonb has a good quality 5 point harness and a good racing seat, so your head would never hit the steering wheel, plus a HANS device wouldn't be useless without a full harness, you just wouldnt have one at all, id like to see one rigged up to a 3 point haness with an inertia reel!


Oh, and have a read of www.hansdevice.com , it was designed to prevent head movement in relation to the body primarily in frontal impacts, as its this condition that causes the type of fatal accident that killed Dale Earnhardt Jr.

[jonb-]

Oh, and have a read of www.hansdevice.com , it was designed to prevent head movement in relation to the body primarily in frontal impacts, as its this condition that causes the type of fatal accident that killed Dale Earnhardt Jr.

I thought it played a fair amount in side impact too, i guess i'll have to do my reading.

[skinthespin]

It does jon, but its a specific type of accident that killed dale that prompted the device to be compulsory in high levels of motorsport, and that type of injury is primarily caused by head on collisions.

[RichardPON]

Jon,

All seems far OTT to me.

If you're going down this road with a good budget, stop messing around stripping out an MR2, and go racing instead.

Remember, it's supposed to be a trackday car, and trackdays are all about fun, not winning, or overtaking the next guy.

The exact reason why I got rid of my last caged trackday cossie was simply because I'd lost sight of what the trackday thing was all about.

One of the best I've done was when I ended up using a 1.7TD Mk4 Astra on the Bedford West circuit - no noise issues that day

Specificaly though because it's amateurs on trackdays, the incidents are actually fewer, and the speeds much lower - lots of trackdays have now begun to spread cars out mid-session to stop bunching..... everything is done that is possible to prevent situations coming up where "racing incidents" occur.

Every trackday I've done where cars have ended up roofs have purely been through driver error........

172 in front of me at Bedford - vid clip - left click:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/0803/ ... ocrash.flv

[jonb-]

Remember, it's supposed to be a trackday car, and trackdays are all about fun, not winning, or overtaking the next guy.

That's a very very fair point and i'm probably over thinking the lot but the bottom line is the costs between racing and trackdays is massive and there's no way I can afford to race.

Even the costs of the mr2 challange are way way out of my budget.

Perhaps i should get back into karts, been a while since i was serious.

[skinthespin]

Perhaps i should get back into karts, been a while since i was serious

maybe you should just stop being serious?

[jonb-]

No.