Just £1500 for an S2000 engine...obvious question follows...

[juanwond]

..just how easily could this be made to fit into a mk1?
Just Imagine wringing it's neck down your favourite 'twisty'.... that 237bhp engine going to work just behind your ears, vtec kicking in with a solid thump to your hooter before screeeaming it's little heart out to a howling 8000 rpm ...hoooo how that would make the mk1 dance.

So, has anyone thought about trying this or am i the only loon in the pool who thinks it would be a great combination?...i think it would be simply awesome.

Anyone want to suggest just how possible this would be to do, what other bits you would need (gearbox etc?)

Here's the blurb from the add of someone who obviously had a similar idea for a mid-engined screamer though it doesn't say what car it was intended for..

Honda s2000 engine for sale. Complete engine less wiring. engine is set up with hewland/vw gearbox adaptor for mid engine application or you could revert to front engine. comes with injection and tony law mid engine manifold. Also available is spare engine which has very minor damage to bores due to little end oil pressure problem...head is perfect etc
engine is in cheshire or could be sent on pallet for £60

Price 1500
Location North

And just a few stats to wet your appetite

S2000 weight .......... 1296 kg

Power 237/7800

Torque 162/6800

Redline 8000 rpm

0-62 <6.0 seconds
top speed 150mph

And the mk1 weighs over 200kg less!!

Cmon, someone just do it (pleeeeze) [-o< ... and show us the way...dare ya

Juan.

[kevin..in]

nothing is immpossable but some things are immpractical, I'm not saying this is but you wont know unless you try. But one off engineering unless you have a well equiped workshop is very expensive, do it if you feel you can!!
One for the two brutal boyz

[hachi-roku]

Also would be a matter of getting a gearbox (amongst other things) as they are FR and I don't know if that same engine is used in any FF applications.

Plus I did hear something about Honda engines spinning a different way to other engines (I don't know how much truth there is in that though)

[Icsunonove]

You may also run into oil starvation problems with the sump baffling. I had this problem when I had a Fiat 132 (originally longitudinally mounted engine) fitted in my X1/9. Ended up having to design and manufacture my own sump!

[Lauren]

Also would be a matter of getting a gearbox (amongst other things) as they are FR and I don't know if that same engine is used in any FF applications.

Plus I did hear something about Honda engines spinning a different way to other engines (I don't know how much truth there is in that though)

think its only the DC2 1.8 VTEC engine that spins the wrong way.

K20A (as in civic type-R) would be a much more viable alternative and easier to fit in an MR2 as you could use the 6 speed box, you'd just have to faff around with driveshafts.

[Charged]

You may also run into oil starvation problems with the sump baffling. I had this problem when I had a Fiat 132 (originally longitudinally mounted engine) fitted in my X1/9. Ended up having to design and manufacture my own sump!

Genius, is there any think you cannot do Tom??!!

I've heard of an S2K engine in a Corolla AE86 , but not in an MR2. The gear box and wiring would be two of the major sticking points! Your are better off looking at tubby conversions or if you dont like forced induction then a Camry V6 swap

[TheDodge]

Will it fit? Its all dependant on what lengths you are prepared to go to to make it fit.

The first 4 critera for me would be:

1. Overall dimensions of the engine and gearbox unit in relation to the engine bay taking into account induction and exhaust route.

2. On gearbox you say hewland or V.W. So lets scratch the hewland box as thats race kit and likely to cost as much as the engine again. So the V.W. box will have to have drive outputs in a similar area to the original box. some differnce is o.k. but look at the likely drive shaft angles and predict how movement through the suspension travel will affect the driveshaft joints. Big driveshaft joint deflections will sap power and increase the wear rate of these components.

3. Can the gear change mechanism be adapted to suit the mr2 lever posistion and operate correctly. Also consider clutch actuation, is it cable or hydraulic?

4. Engine mountings. Where are the original honda mounts fixed to the engine gearbox. Are these in a similar place to the mount points in the car body? If not is there anything substantial in the engine bay near by to tie these mounting points together? are there any other places on the honda unit that a mount could be attached to and bear the load safely. Maybe a complete custom engine cradle/subframe is the answer N.b. You need some form of vibration dampening built into the custom mount or the car body will buzz like mad!

Provided these main conditions can be met mechanically then the project is a starter There will be many other things to attend to but, for me anyway, if any of the above can't be sorted its time to look for a different engine

[firstmk1]

Just read a post on an Elise forum stating that no gearbox is available to fit it in the configuration needed. I guess you could try but then you may have more luck building a 4wd or twin engined AW11.

[Huw]

... 2. On gearbox you say hewland or V.W. So lets scratch the hewland box as thats race kit and likely to cost as much as the engine again. So the V.W. box will have to have drive outputs in a similar area to the original box. some differnce is o.k. but look at the likely drive shaft angles and predict how movement through the suspension travel will affect the driveshaft joints. Big driveshaft joint deflections will sap power and increase the wear rate of these components. ...

Dude, both the hewland & vee-dub boxes are designed for engines installed longitudinally ... i.e. front to back. For an MR2 (unless you wanna get into SERIOUS structural work) you need a gearbox to mount the engine sideways, as the 4AGE is.

Nothing is impossible given enough time & money ... but as viable ideas go, i reckon this one might be a non-starter.

[Lauren]

hence why the K20A is a viable option, driveshafts may be expensive though. I used to put these in elises. worked very well.

Reckon it'd work pretty well in an MR2.. wouldn't be as quick as an elise by any margin but would still move pretty well with 200bhp.

[PW@Woodsport]

there would be too many small issues putting this engine into a mk1,you would be much better off going down the beaten path and using toyotas own 3s-gte,more powerful and most things plug n play.

[crazylegs]

posh avatar paul. your own work ?

[juanwond]

Informative answers, thanks for the replies. Seems like probably a non starter reading through all of this, the Civic Type R sounds like a much beeter possibility...i was looking at engines that were
a. Naturally aspirated to retain the character and feel of the mk1, for my tastes a turbo just doesn{t give you the same linear engine response/feel and can really affect the handling of the car in power on/off situations - a sequence of tight twisting bends for example
b. High reving ...just because that´s what i love in an engine
c. Producing at least 200bhp
d.Durable like the 4age
e. As close to the weight as the 4age as is possible to minimise any affect on the handling.

That rules out the Tubby route and camray V6 which i assume is quite a bit heavier. Given the above criteria Honda seemed like the company of choice given their fantastic range of Vtec engines . The Civic Engine fits the bill....so long as driveshafts can be found. anyone know how much it weighs?

Any other suggestions or advice greatly appreciated as i really do want to build a ´2 with a powerfull and rev hungry motor.... something to give all those Chav´s a bit of a shock

Juan.

juan.

Juan.

[Speedy]

That rules out the Tubby route and camray V6 which i assume is quite a bit heavier. Given the above criteria Honda seemed like the company of choice given their fantastic range of Vtec engines . The Civic Engine fits the bill....so long as driveshafts can be found. anyone know how much it weighs?

There is an interesting quote here :
(http://www.v8mr2.com/)

Now some have said the engine weighs a ton. In actuality it weighs less than 500 pounds fully loaded. It is only a few pounds more than a fully built 3S-GTE.

But, I recall reading somewhere on that site (which I can't find now), that in his opinion the weight doesn't make that much of a difference because of it's location in the chassis (or words to that effect).

All that said, I would much prefer to see the K20A conversion rather than a tubby one, revvy rev rev

[HT]

Sorry if this is off topic slightly!

Is it possible to get a reliable 200bhp out the 4AGE N/A??

[Speedy]

Sorry if this is off topic slightly!

Is it possible to get a reliable 200bhp out the 4AGE N/A??

Probably, although it would be expensive, and I'm not sure how driveable the end result would be?

[HT]

Sorry if this is off topic slightly!

Is it possible to get a reliable 200bhp out the 4AGE N/A??

Probably, although it would be expensive, and I'm not sure how driveable the end result would be?

Just a thought really as although the honda's a nice unit it would be a lot of work to fit it, and possibly very expensive unless someone has the rigt skills to do so.

[kevin..in]

so what about a Toyota Beams engine? Ok they are rare as....
but fit the bill in every other aspect

[juanwond]

so what about a Toyota Beams engine? Ok they are rare as....
but fit the bill in every other aspect

Never heard of that engine, what were they fitted to, what hp etc ?

Juan.

[juanwond]

BTW, being as ´fast´ as an Elise or anything else isn´t the point of this (yes i know Lauren you weren´t saying that it was!) just to create in my mind what would be (this side of silly money) one of the best 'fun' cars possible..in my opinion. the mk1 really is one of the best starting points, being mid engined and rwd....cars today really seem to have lost the point in general, too much grip, power etc and too little involvment.. on the roads today how much fun can be had in cars capable of flying around a corner at xxxx mph?

Give me a car that engages at 7 tenths, will remain faithfull at ten tenths (I know my driving skills aren´t good enough to cope with anything else on a day to day basis!) and will allow you to enjoy both with a fair chance of retaining your license!!

Juan.