Is the Celica GT4 a good MR2 Tubby replacement?

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danjama
Posts: 640
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:28 pm

Is the Celica GT4 a good MR2 Tubby replacement?

Post by danjama »

Lately my situation has changed slightly and i've been pondering replacing/running next to my mr2 with a car with 4+ seats. I don't drive to work so all of my driving is for pleasure/leisure and so my car must give a lot of smiles per mile...but my budget is not huge. I'd been considering a few different cars:

Clio 172/182
Celica 190
Ignis Sport
E36/E46 328
Levin Ae101/111 (rare as xxxx)

etc...

Then yesterday I was walking to the shop and I spotted a 1995 GT4 hiding in a neighbours driveway. It looked brilliant and I almost knocked on their door with an offer :lol:

But i've never been in one. I know they're a bit heavier than MR2's but the 4wd could make up for it in being a new experience. And i'm sure it would feel kind of familiar...no?

Part of me wants to try one, but then part of me likes the idea of a 172 at just a smidge over a tonne, with its chuckability around the b roads :)

Would really appreciate any thoughts on the GT4 compared to an MR2 turbo :thumleft:
nitrodave
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:41 pm

Re: Is the Celica GT4 a good MR2 Tubby replacement?

Post by nitrodave »

i had a st185 about 10 years ago and really liked it. Wish i had a st205 gt4 though. The one i had was plenty quick even in stock form.

Best thing was the handling. I thought it was well built and really solid - other than the weak head gaskets. It was heavy, but not a barge.

I still hamper after a st205 and would consider one over the rev3 turbo i have now
danjama
Posts: 640
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:28 pm

Re: Is the Celica GT4 a good MR2 Tubby replacement?

Post by danjama »

nitrodave wrote:i had a st185 about 10 years ago and really liked it. Wish i had a st205 gt4 though. The one i had was plenty quick even in stock form.

Best thing was the handling. I thought it was well built and really solid - other than the weak head gaskets. It was heavy, but not a barge.

I still hamper after a st205 and would consider one over the rev3 turbo i have now


The st185 is a good looking car as well IMO. I would definitely consider one too in the right condition and price. Can't see any for sale though in the usual places.

But the ST205 has that something you can't put your finger on, that the older and newer Celicas don't have.

I bet they handle like they are on rails.
shinny
Posts: 2345
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:59 pm
Location: Reading, UK

Re: Is the Celica GT4 a good MR2 Tubby replacement?

Post by shinny »

danjama wrote:so my car must give a lot of smiles per mile.


You're concerned about smiles per mile but want to get rid of an MR2 turbo?? I'm confused...

Oh, 4 seats required! TBH, I would recommend the two car approach :thumleft:
VanderBoon
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:45 pm

Re: Is the Celica GT4 a good MR2 Tubby replacement?

Post by VanderBoon »

If you decide you want one pm me. I know of one that'll shortly be for sale in perfect condition.
thomp1983
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Location: newark, notts

Re: Is the Celica GT4 a good MR2 Tubby replacement?

Post by thomp1983 »

I loved my st205 wrc and would take it over my v6 '2 any day but make no mistake the running costs can be eye watering. superstrut suspension your looking at £800 a side, engine mods your looking at similar money to an mr2 but constantly removing/refitting the charge cooler to get at stuff becomes a chore. recaro seats £7-800 a pair, interior id rate the mr2 as better imo. gt4 brakes are awesome and the handling superb but you'll find yourself chasing higher speeds or turning in later and later to get the same level of thrills rwd gives at lower speeds. I sold my gt4 as it was costing £100 a week in fuel plus running costs on top. my v6's is considerably less to run.

owners clubs mr2's win hands down I found some of the gt4 boards to be a bit snobbish and you certainly don't have free access to specialist advise like we do in the mr2 community with the likes of paul woods and Pete.

chris
2mad
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Location: uk

Re: Is the Celica GT4 a good MR2 Tubby replacement?

Post by 2mad »

A mildly modded st205 is a good substitute for an mr2's drivability, its quite a bit better in some respects eg. in the wet you can flore it in 1st, 2nd and 3rd ect and it still hooks up, try doing that in an mr2 lol.
In the dry power deliverys great again because you can get the power down with out massive wheel spin in low gears.
Handling, the mr2 was like a gocart with cusco coilovers fitted , the gt4 is still very good by comparison, even with ditch finders tyres fitted it hangs on in there due to its 4x4 permanent all wheel drive .

Dont get me wrong I miss my mr2 so much but its nice having a car thats not trying to kill you in the wet .


Kev.
RST
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Location: Inverness, Scotland

Re: Is the Celica GT4 a good MR2 Tubby replacement?

Post by RST »

Had 2-off SW20's and 2-off ST205's:

The interior of a 205 feels much less encapsulating than an sw20. The dashboard is allot more basic. The seats in a 205 are also much more lacking -nice enough seats but don't capture you much. The boot in a 205 is just awful because of the hump for the spare wheel. Looks like a big boot but is tiny with the parcel shelf closed.

Performance-wise I felt the 205 a tad slower (not by much) but where it really has it is in the corners. If you get a good one, or change the parts and fit decent tyres they just go round corners just as fast as on the straight, quite flat, quite expecting.

...have to say I found them such good road handlers I thought they were boring. I had aftermarket rear ARB's set to soft so they gave a bit more slip in corners but the car was still just on rails. Bit more lag on stock cars compared to the SW20, almost comparable with a new decent turbo fitted, but not much. Allot of parts similar to gen 3 SW20 (engine-wise), lots and lots of expensive parts elsewhere.

I love the '205, always attracted attention. Scooby guys loved it because it was on a par but they never see many. 4 seats -goes round corners on rails, awesome in the wet -depends what you want I guess. Owners clubs were pretty naff in comparison.

That said, I do have a definite fondness of the '205, one of my fav cars of all time, honoured to have owned a WRC one..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P1IPc1-LGI
There's always the 185 I guess though..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV2DxWaBo_U
al/c
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:05 am
Location: near a shell station

gt4

Post by al/c »

i,ll let you know at the weekend when i pick my new one up :) p.s. mine is an addition not replacement :thumleft:
BALDYMONSTER
Posts: 581
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:39 am

Re: Is the Celica GT4 a good MR2 Tubby replacement?

Post by BALDYMONSTER »

Absolutely brilliant if you find the right one!

I had an st-185 "crate" wide body without a spot of rust.

Rebuilt it from the ground up with a fully forged engine, it was just waiting to get resprayed to complete it when I lost it I'm a rather silly decision.

Great cars, only petrol heads know what they are which was a huge attraction for it for me.

Incredible grip and handling, very nice to drive bit very thirsty.

Done right they are in a class of their own.

However, your hand is never out your pocket with them.

Even more so than my 650bhp Evo!
danjama
Posts: 640
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:28 pm

Re: Is the Celica GT4 a good MR2 Tubby replacement?

Post by danjama »

I've been reading but not had time to log in and reply until now.

You've all made me want one but I dont think i can say bye to the turbo :) so will get saving i think!

Been watching gt4 videos on youtube haha

Thanks for all the anecdotes and info, and please let me know how you like yours al :thumleft:
BALDYMONSTER
Posts: 581
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:39 am

Re: Is the Celica GT4 a good MR2 Tubby replacement?

Post by BALDYMONSTER »

If i really had to choose between an mr2 and any gt4 providing I really disnt need 4 seats. REALLY didn't need 4 seats then it would be an mr2 everytime.

Look better, cheaper to run, more fun, more eye catching to all and sundry.

The gt4 is great but it's a wallet emptier for sure.

Btw, you wouldn't believe the state of my old gt4 now thanks to it's new owner.

Pile of poo and then some. Never looked after, interior is a mess, every £700 a piece magnesium refurbed alloy curbed, never warmed up or cooled down, evo sticked a sat nav to the dash, ran the forged engine with the manual switched fan in all the time.

I tried to buy it back but he insisted it was as good as when I sold it to him.

The shell might be worth a few quid at best now.
Charged
IMOC Committee
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Re: Is the Celica GT4 a good MR2 Tubby replacement?

Post by Charged »

Previous st205 wrc owner here. I found it heavy, slow and it guzzled petrol. Had it's moments, loved the rareity, High rise spoiler, confidence through the corners, snow driving but I wouldn't want another one. It was boring compared to the mk1 turbo .. But I guess it always would be when comparing the two
If you can't see the angle, you're in trouble.
BALDYMONSTER
Posts: 581
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:39 am

Re: Is the Celica GT4 a good MR2 Tubby replacement?

Post by BALDYMONSTER »

Image

Image

Image
BALDYMONSTER
Posts: 581
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:39 am

Re: Is the Celica GT4 a good MR2 Tubby replacement?

Post by BALDYMONSTER »

Image

Looks awesome but got sick of keeping it on the road.

Nothing but cash non stop.

More than any other performance car I have ever owned.
thomp1983
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Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:30 pm
Location: newark, notts

Re: Is the Celica GT4 a good MR2 Tubby replacement?

Post by thomp1983 »

well if we must do pictures :mrgreen:

Image
BALDYMONSTER
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Re: Is the Celica GT4 a good MR2 Tubby replacement?

Post by BALDYMONSTER »

Faffs are no good.

It has to be a crate or nothing! ;)
al/c
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:05 am
Location: near a shell station

gt4

Post by al/c »

black faff =P~...mine Image[/URL] :thumleft: [/img]
Ryan S
IMOC Moderator
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Re: Is the Celica GT4 a good MR2 Tubby replacement?

Post by Ryan S »

shinny wrote:
danjama wrote:so my car must give a lot of smiles per mile.


You're concerned about smiles per mile but want to get rid of an MR2 turbo?? I'm confused...

Oh, 4 seats required! TBH, I would recommend the two car approach :thumleft:


so would I, I have a beat up Volvo V40 diesel to run about in, it hardly costs a thing, 60-70 Miles off a tenner (whatever that is in litres i've no idea). cheap as chips to insure, couple that with the Mr2 costing less than 200quid to insure it really isn't all that expensive!!
l1ca
Posts: 713
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:17 am

Re: Is the Celica GT4 a good MR2 Tubby replacement?

Post by l1ca »

Ive had two, a faff WRC and a non wrc version. Hardly any difference really apart from the WRC came with some added extras that were not plumbed in.

Being my first "real" performance car I loved it but they are a totally different car than the MR2.

Being a 4wd car be prepared for some serious drive train losses. My first one was standard from an engine perspective, bar an exhaust, and air filter, whilst it made 262.8bhp at the fly the actual power given to the wheels was around 198bhp.

However, where these cars excel is the phenomenal levels of grip. Evos, and Subarus (I think) :-k have a power distribution around the 60/40 split where as the GT4, specifically the faff (never owned a crate) has a 50/50 and this translates to the road in an incredible amount of grip.

I never once, ever put my faff out of shape unless specifically trying to, this could translate to some people as boring and un-involving, but this just isnt the case for me, it was outstanding.

Now, one of the weak areas you have to be careful of is the super strut suspension. This needs - or is getting ready to be - replaced at around the 60k miles and the cost approaches insane, not only are the parts bloody expensive (manufacturer only), theres a lot of them, and the labour involved is a pretty penny too.

Just bear in mind if you find a gorgeous 205 - cheap - around the 60k mark, there's a reason, it really is one of those cars that if you cant afford a good one, you cant afford a cheap one.

I could go on about these all day long, but ill cut it short in fear of writing a novel here, I personally have and will always have a soft spot for the 205, doesnt feel as fast as the MR2, nor as fundamentally exciting, but it excels in many other areas.

I love them and would have another in a heart beat, but if the question was posed "would you sell your MR2 for one?" - I wouldnt.

Not sure what that says..

Anyways, some pic whoring:

1st One:

Image
Image


2nd One:

Image
Image
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