[Mk2] [Turbo] Which turbo for quick spool

Posts about anything do to with modifying your car such as fitting aftermarket parts, bodykit, or tuning the engine for more performance.

Moderators: IMOC Moderators, IMOC Committee Members

SteveH
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:15 pm
Location: Ireland!

[Mk2] [Turbo] Which turbo for quick spool

Post by SteveH »

Hi all,

Been doing a bit of research, and think I'm coming up with a GT28 series, but I was wondering peoples' thoughts on what a quick spooling turbo would be.

Ideally looking for something that will come on boost very quickly. Not looking for big BHP numbers, would rather have the power lower down in the range. To put a number on it, around 350 and I'd be more than happy, but as I said, more about response.

Supporting mods already in place:
HKS I/C
XSPower cat
Fujitsubo box
PFC+Apexi Boost Control Unit (will be changing for a standalone device)
HKS filter
ashley
Posts: 7628
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:08 pm

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Which turbo for quick spool

Post by ashley »

GTX28 :thumleft:
craig
Posts: 43936
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:44 am

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Which turbo for quick spool

Post by craig »

ct26 hybrid aka ct27.
SteveH
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:15 pm
Location: Ireland!

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Which turbo for quick spool

Post by SteveH »

Ill check it out Ashley, any idea on what comp housing?

Forgot to mention it's a Rev 5. So CT27 better than ct20b?
Race Idiot
Posts: 2589
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:48 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Which turbo for quick spool

Post by Race Idiot »

RedMR² wrote:ct26 hybrid aka ct27.


How many people have got that power out of a hybrid CT series turbo?
craig
Posts: 43936
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:44 am

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Which turbo for quick spool

Post by craig »

Race Idiot wrote:
RedMR² wrote:ct26 hybrid aka ct27.


How many people have got that power out of a hybrid CT series turbo?


http://www.fensport.co.uk/Parts/Model_1 ... ory_1/1959
craig
Posts: 43936
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:44 am

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Which turbo for quick spool

Post by craig »

SteveH wrote:

Forgot to mention it's a Rev 5. So CT27 better than ct20b?


Certainly stronger, good for 1.5 bar/22 psi and 350-360bhp with supporting mods as necessary.

CT20b is only good for 1.1 bar, 1.2bar (at your own risk!)
Race Idiot
Posts: 2589
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:48 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Which turbo for quick spool

Post by Race Idiot »



Yeah I know turbo companies make hybrids that say 'capable of xxxhp' but is there anyone on this forum that has managed to make that claimed power?

I had a stage 1 hybrid ct26 on my old car and it made decent power on the stock fuel system, but it was definitely laggier than a std ct20. Also it shat an exhaust wheel through the motor, so maybe i've just had bad experiences with hybrids.

Also if you wanted something quick spooling wouldnt you want to go with a more modern ball bearing turbo instead of a journal bearing one?
fingers99
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 11:31 pm
Location: Liverpool

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Which turbo for quick spool

Post by fingers99 »

I'd think for 350 you're looking at GT28RS -- or bigger -- (the R denotes a ball bearing set up so faster spool up) -- even then, that's crank, not wheel bhp, and pretty much at the top end of what Garret say it can achieve. Shinny has one fitted. Garret have some strange new turbo designations -- worth talking to them.

I've read, probably here, that the Rev 3 CT20B has thinner shaft than the CT26, so less suitable for hybridisation. Still, a CT27 (hybridised CT26) is unlikely to get you 300bhp.
craig
Posts: 43936
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:44 am

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Which turbo for quick spool

Post by craig »

fingers99 wrote:Still, a CT27 (hybridised CT26) is unlikely to get you 300bhp.


Anything to back up that statement, given that it's good for 22psi with a Larger steel compressor wheel and supporting mods as necessary, stand alone ecu etc?

Given that you can get 300bhp on a stock rev3 turbo with bolt ons and a boost increase?

Plus why would Fensport advertise a hybrid ct26 hybrid being good for 360bhp if it wouldn't even make 300 bhp :roll:

I think Fensport know what they're talking about.
shinny
Posts: 2345
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:59 pm
Location: Reading, UK

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Which turbo for quick spool

Post by shinny »

fingers99 wrote:GT28RS... Shinny has one fitted


That I do, although there will be plenty of others who do too.

The potato gives me boost even on partial throttle like the CT20b never did. Boost comes on very nicely, but you can feel the stock ECU isn't making best use of it.
ashley
Posts: 7628
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:08 pm

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Which turbo for quick spool

Post by ashley »

ashley wrote:GTX28 :thumleft:
bobhatton
Posts: 3351
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:34 pm
Location: Bodmin Cornwall

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Which turbo for quick spool

Post by bobhatton »

shinny wrote:
fingers99 wrote:GT28RS... Shinny has one fitted


That I do, although there will be plenty of others who do too.

The potato gives me boost even on partial throttle like the CT20b never did. Boost comes on very nicely, but you can feel the stock ECU isn't making best use of it.


If you are on a stock engine with the stock ecu then the engine will be running under the control of the knock sensor as you will be getting lots of it a low revs.

Try some racing fuel in it, then you will see how well it will go.
Designer for turbo set ups on F1 cars, and Nitrous Oxide Systems of the USA in the 80s
dazzz
Posts: 2026
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:06 pm
Location: manchester

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Which turbo for quick spool

Post by dazzz »

Can anyone just go and buy racing fuel? if so, where from and roughly how much does it cost?
SteveH
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:15 pm
Location: Ireland!

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Which turbo for quick spool

Post by SteveH »

Great discussion, thanks to all for the input.

And can anyone say for certain, that exhaust wrap could also help slightly?
jimGTS
Posts: 14024
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: North Kent

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Which turbo for quick spool

Post by jimGTS »

RedMR² wrote:
fingers99 wrote:Still, a CT27 (hybridised CT26) is unlikely to get you 300bhp.


Anything to back up that statement, given that it's good for 22psi with a Larger steel compressor wheel and supporting mods as necessary, stand alone ecu etc?

Given that you can get 300bhp on a stock rev3 turbo with bolt ons and a boost increase?

Plus why would Fensport advertise a hybrid ct26 hybrid being good for 360bhp if it wouldn't even make 300 bhp :roll:

I think Fensport know what they're talking about.


On the flip side red, where are all these mr2s running 360hp on a hybrid?
Many would argue no ct26 hybrid is as good as a ct20b.

Many of us have been on here many years, and I don't see anyone anywhere near it with a hybrid. Folks have cranked it up to 1.7bar and not been near it.
You have to go to America who run a ct27 and e85 fuel to get close. But same deal with a standard 20b!
Stock fuel over here though. Not likely.
Fensport are not part of any of the mr2 communities, so how would they know how they perform.

I'd rather go via independent owners dynos than a 'turbo spec sheet' from any company selling 26 hybrids.

Only hybrids worth looking at are those sold by ats racing. Even they admit it's no better than a stock ct20b for outright performance.
There is a new self titled ct21 out now by them which looks interesting.

Just cause a hybrid can be run at 22psi, doesn't mean it makes anymore power at raised boost levels over a ct20.
It still has a crappy exhaust housing and wastegate creating heat, not power.

Hell I run a hybrid, not out of choice, nothing against them really. They are maybe on par with a ct20b but with more lag. I'd go as far as saying a ct20b makes similar power at 22psi than any ct26 hybrid.
Peter Gidden
IMOC Affiliated Trackday Organiser
Posts: 10506
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:49 am
Location: South Yorkshire

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Which turbo for quick spool

Post by Peter Gidden »

RedMR² wrote:
fingers99 wrote:Still, a CT27 (hybridised CT26) is unlikely to get you 300bhp.


Anything to back up that statement.


Obviously not. CT stage 3 hybrids and CT27 regularly make well over 300hp.
shinny
Posts: 2345
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:59 pm
Location: Reading, UK

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Which turbo for quick spool

Post by shinny »

bobhatton wrote:If you are on a stock engine with the stock ecu then the engine will be running under the control of the knock sensor as you will be getting lots of it a low revs.

Try some racing fuel in it, then you will see how well it will go.


Very interesting, thanks :thumleft:

I'm starting to think it does need remapping, yes... you can really feel where the ECU goes from closed to open loop modes. But right now it'll have to do.
Last edited by shinny on Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
craig
Posts: 43936
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:44 am

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Which turbo for quick spool

Post by craig »

jimGTS wrote:
RedMR² wrote:
fingers99 wrote:Still, a CT27 (hybridised CT26) is unlikely to get you 300bhp.


Anything to back up that statement, given that it's good for 22psi with a Larger steel compressor wheel and supporting mods as necessary, stand alone ecu etc?

Given that you can get 300bhp on a stock rev3 turbo with bolt ons and a boost increase?

Plus why would Fensport advertise a hybrid ct26 hybrid being good for 360bhp if it wouldn't even make 300 bhp :roll:

I think Fensport know what they're talking about.


On the flip side red, where are all these mr2s running 360hp on a hybrid?
Many would argue no ct26 hybrid is as good as a ct20b.

Many of us have been on here many years, and I don't see anyone anywhere near it with a hybrid. Folks have cranked it up to 1.7bar and not been near it.
You have to go to America who run a ct27 and e85 fuel to get close. But same deal with a standard 20b!
Stock fuel over here though. Not likely.
Fensport are not part of any of the mr2 communities, so how would they know how they perform.

I'd rather go via independent owners dynos than a 'turbo spec sheet' from any company selling 26 hybrids.

Only hybrids worth looking at are those sold by ats racing. Even they admit it's no better than a stock ct20b for outright performance.
There is a new self titled ct21 out now by them which looks interesting.

Just cause a hybrid can be run at 22psi, doesn't mean it makes anymore power at raised boost levels over a ct20.
It still has a crappy exhaust housing and wastegate creating heat, not power.

Hell I run a hybrid, not out of choice, nothing against them really. They are maybe on par with a ct20b but with more lag. I'd go as far as saying a ct20b makes similar power at 22psi than any ct26 hybrid.


The hybrid ct26 has an enlarged steel compressor wheel, whereas the ct20b is ceramic.
I wouldn't put any more than 1.2 bar through a stock rev3 turbo, whereas the ct26 hybrid is good for 22 psi and boosts to the red line.

I'll see how I get on when I get my forged engine built complete with ct26 hybrid mapped on a power fc and report back. I wouldn't say that it's on par with a stock ct20b though.
fingers99
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 11:31 pm
Location: Liverpool

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Which turbo for quick spool

Post by fingers99 »

RedMR² wrote:
fingers99 wrote:Still, a CT27 (hybridised CT26) is unlikely to get you 300bhp.


Anything to back up that statement, given that it's good for 22psi with a Larger steel compressor wheel and supporting mods as necessary, stand alone ecu etc?

Given that you can get 300bhp on a stock rev3 turbo with bolt ons and a boost increase?

.


Only the Heick book. But my mistake -- he's taking original ATS CT27 and 280 rwhp. So, 315-320 crank?

What are the intake temperatures like at 22psi?
Post Reply

Return to “Modifications”