[Mk2] [NA] Bottom End Rebuild?

[Zogbee]

Hi guys, engine is knocking so im pretty sure its the bottom end gone.
Just wanted to know how much roughly a bottom end rebuild will set me back?
To a standard 3sge. Including parts + labour
Have you guys had any experience in this?
Any help would be much appreciated.

[Peter Gidden]

To do properly, you're looking at around £1000.

Better off looking for a secondhand engine that has proven history.

[Zogbee]

Ah thanks for that.
I got in contact with a engine service specilist garage local to me they gave my a quote. Quite resonable perhaps?
£995 New Internals
£250 Labour
£85 Gaskets, Liquids
5 Year Warrenty
How does that seem? Worth it?

[Peter Gidden]

£995 New Internals - Way over the top
£250 Labour - Too cheap for removal, strip down, rebuild and refit
£85 Gaskets, Liquids - Too cheap for quality parts

[Loque]

£995 New Internals - Way over the top
£250 Labour - Too cheap for removal, strip down, rebuild and refit
£85 Gaskets, Liquids - Too cheap for quality parts

This.

Could you justify it as an excuse to put a turbo or V6 lump in?

[Zogbee]

Thanks for that Peter.

Going to try and grab an engine and stick that in.
Would love either a V6 conversion but being a student there's no way lol.
I was thinking about the 3SGTE but not sure. Do they go for the same as 3SGE's? Haven't seen none about on ebay. Quite a tight budget i've got going.

I've found a REV 2 engine for £350 UK spec. Would I still be tested as an import during MOT with my decat? Also if I were to get the REV 3 + 3sge, would it fit straight in? I've heard talk about replacing the ecu too?

Thanks for the help guys

[Peter Gidden]

I've found a REV 2 engine for £350 UK spec. Would I still be tested as an import during MOT with my decat?

Yes if you don't mentiion the UK engine.

I were to get the REV 3 + 3sge, would it fit straight in? I've heard talk about replacing the ecu too?

It will bolt straight in. A few differences, but nothing that can't be sorted easily. You'll need matching engine loom and ECU.

[A.BLAKE]

If you are in London i would be making a trip to pacific works... Especially if your going 3stge... Luke just rebuilt the head on mine and its amaaaaazing...

[BrianUK]

If the the bottom end is knocking - and provided that you havent left it too long - then the chances are that all you need is a new set of big end and main bearings.

Its possible to change these bearings with the engine in situ - the whole job can be done in an afternoon - I know I have done it to more than one MR2.

What it comes down to is wether the crankshaft is scored - if it is then its engine out / replacement time - if not then you can replace the bearings, fill up with new oil and job done

As far as new parts are concerned you will need the shell bearings - they are available from Toyota - and there is a write up on this site on how to size them using the markings stamped into the engine casing, and onto each con rod. Alternatively you can use Clevite bearings that only come in one size. You will also need new engine oil.

The sump has no gasket on it but you will need a tube of gasket sealant.

With (some) mechanical expertise you could do this yourself for @ the £100 mark. Alternatley take it to a garage that specialises in MR2s - and Im sure that they would carry out the repair for far less then you have been quoted - assuming the crank is good...

Brian

References:
http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/kb.php?mode=article&k=99

http://www.roguesystems.co.uk/forms/Product.aspx?ID=400

[Peter Gidden]

I'd never do a bottom end in situ. Seen too many fail after less than 100 miles from shards of bearing that have circulated around the oil system.

If big ends have gone, engine needs stripping and properly cleaning out.

[BrianUK]

Never heard of a garage that would recomend taking an engine out just to change shell bearings - not even Toyota.

But the nice thing about technical discussion is that we are all entitled to our opiinion

The last car I changed the bearings on has done at least 25,000 miles.

If the shell bearings are worn, there should not be any shards. If they are damaged then yes there may well be.. in that case however its likely that the crank is scored - and it that would be an engine out job.

And hopefully any metal shards that do come off the bearings will

1) Fall to the bottom of the sum pan, or

2) Get stopped by the oil strainer, or

3) Get stopped by the oil filter.

Brian

[Peter Gidden]

I agree - no problem with difference of opinion.

I guess

a) i have to give a warranty lasting at least 12 months, and in reality, much longer. I can't be ar$ed to risk the time and expense of it coming back at anytime within what the law would describe as a "rerasonable" period of time or mileage.

b) i can't inspect amd measure crankshaft journals properly and accurately in situ. Others might be able to, but i've not found a way yet.

c) changing shells only, from a professional point of view, is, IMHO, "half a job". On the driveway, there are plenty of acceptable methods and solutions which would not be found in a workshop.

[PW@Woodsport]

Never heard of a garage that would recomend taking an engine out just to change shell bearings - not even Toyota.

But the nice thing about technical discussion is that we are all entitled to our opiinion

The last car I changed the bearings on has done at least 25,000 miles.

If the shell bearings are worn, there should not be any shards. If they are damaged then yes there may well be.. in that case however its likely that the crank is scored - and it that would be an engine out job.

And hopefully any metal shards that do come off the bearings will

1) Fall to the bottom of the sum pan, or

2) Get stopped by the oil strainer, or

3) Get stopped by the oil filter.

Brian

I've highlighted the key word in your post there Brian, Mr2 garages cannot take the chance of a bottom end change "hopefully" being alright just by changing the shells in situ, as i'm sure you can appreciate just doing that while there may be shards of material still circulating the system (almost 100% gauranteed there will be) is doomed to failure pretty quickly.

Now while the man at home may just flush his system thoroughly, swap the shells out and take every precaution to make the job as good as possible, it really isn't the proper way it should be done. I'm quite sure if you took your car to a specialist you would want the full and thorough job doing rather than just whacking some shells in.

From a warranty point of view it places the garage in a horrible position, if the bottom end went again (even months later), or worse a full engine failure resulting from contamination, would you demand the garage foot the bill?

Bottom line is we need to cover ourselves, and the only way of doing that is to do the job properly from day 1, anything else is just a shortcut, and while i agree you MAY get away with just changing shells in situ, it is not good working practice.

[Driftlimits Performance]

damn straight we'd never change them in situ on a customers car.

do the job properly once.