thinking of losing the mk2 and going old skool

[DiYMCRT]

hi all i have always loved the look of the mk1 and i've never driven one but only hear good things about the handling, owned a couple of mk2's and i love the 3sge but i still feel im in the wrong mr2 when i see a mk1 but i want the best of both world's so has anyone 3sge'd a mk1? i'd be carbing it probably bike carbs (kawasaki 750) and megajolt.

knowing very little on mk1's i was after any advise possible on how this conversion may be possible, is there enough room in the engine bay? what gearbox issue's will i have if any? what sort of weight difference is there between a 3sge and 3sfe? both inline 4 so i presume little to none?

thanks chris

[PW@Woodsport]

We built a 3sge powered Mk1, using a rev3 engine so 174bhp.

It didn't set my hair on fire if i'm honest, what you gain in power you lose in extra weight, so it sort of became a bit meh...

It's pretty much the same conversion to fit the 3s-gte instead which will blow your Mr2 world apart, it really will.

My advice is to go straight for the turbo motor, unless V6's are your thing, in which case the 1mz in a Mk1 makes the best combo of power/weight/handling and refinement i've experienced in a Mk1.

The only 3sge i'd consider in a Mk1 would be the Beams, but even then it will only give you stock Mk1 supercharger levels of performance. You need to see a worthwhile gain for your money and hard work, hence the turbo route.

Hope that helps and if you still want to go 3sge i can give you all the help you need.

EDIT: to answer your question, fitting the 3s-fe would be a huge mistake, it would be slower than a stock 4a-ge Mk1.

[Tiamat]

The only 3sge i'd consider in a Mk1 would be the Beams, but even then it will only give you stock Mk1 supercharger levels of performance. You need to see a worthwhile gain for your money and hard work, hence the turbo route.

I thought a stock SC put out around 140 - 145bhp and the Beams around 190-200bhp. Surely even with the added weight you'd feel the benefit of the Beams over the 3SGE.

With a few trick toys you can take the 3SGE up to 200bhp anyway. I know its simpler to put in the 3SGTE but it can be done.

[Ben]

You could always try a black-top 4a-ge conversion - surely that's a fairly simple swap?

[PW@Woodsport]

Black top is not worthwhile i'm afraid Ben, a lot of aggro for no go!

Malcolm, most SC's run modified around the 170/180bhp mark, some 190ish... it was this i was comparing to the Beams level of performance, there wouldn't be much in it to be honest.... i think i'd take a Beams mk1 over a SC but only for cool factor, it would be quite special owning that.

[Tiamat]

Black top is not worthwhile i'm afraid Ben, a lot of aggro for no go!

Malcolm, most SC's run modified around the 170/180bhp mark, some 190ish... it was this i was comparing to the Beams level of performance, there wouldn't be much in it to be honest.... i think i'd take a Beams mk1 over a SC but only for cool factor, it would be quite special owning that.

I realise that, just originally you stated "stock MK1 supercharger" levels of performance. Was wondering if I was confused or not

[PW@Woodsport]

Sorry my mistake mate, i shouldn't have put stock.

[rikster]

go 4agte its wicked 250bhp with t25 turbo & lot less weight than the supercharged setup & the 3sgte setup. 3sgte rev3 will give you 300bhp
but more weight still be fast but alot of work if you can get the latest 4agze engine sell the supercharger get a turbo & manifold from ebay. you need the inlet manifold from a small port 4age & alternator bracket then you can ditch the big cast one from the 4agze
get a ecu ive got a omex 600 you can get one for £550.

[Tiamat]

go 4agte its wicked 250bhp with t25 turbo & lot less weight than the supercharged setup & the 3sgte setup. 3sgte rev3 will give you 300bhp
but more weight still be fast but alot of work if you can get the latest 4agze engine sell the supercharger get a turbo & manifold from ebay. you need the inlet manifold from a small port 4age & alternator bracket then you can ditch the big cast one from the 4agze
get a ecu ive got a omex 600 you can get one for £550.

How much is the rest of the bits? The manifold, turbo etc, what about the rolling road tuning to sort the ECU set up?

I know that a 3SGTE can be put into the car for around £2K including a new clutch, new seals (depending on engine and other items). You'd get a newer engine, with good power and alot more modifiable bits.

The implementation of a 3SGTE into a MK1 is now fairly straight forward, I know Paul has done more than a few, also I am aware that other people have actually done similar projects, professional and home mechanics.

I'd personally go with a proven 3SGTE conversion, or a V6 conversion.

[DiYMCRT]

thanks all some good advise there, i'll be sticking 3sge or mayb gte because i love the engine to be honest, it's fantastic imo, and as for power stock rev3 i'd be happy with but wouldn't mind 200bhp more interested in torque though if i'm honest, i'll shy away from the beams as iirc they are vvti.

I'd rather carb it as i have a spare 3sge engine loom and inlet manifold i have already cut down for mock up with some blackbird 1100 itb's (also came with carb's) and can't afford the £500 ecu options + getting it mapped, i'm considering megasquirt but what can i say i'm mad for the carb

tbh my heads everywhere and i'm just trying to decide what to do i've pondered gte/ge with itb's and ecu, ge carb'd but what i'd really love to do is gte carb'd with megajolt and a supercharger in mk1 maybe by the time i get all the bits and decide on a definitive route rotrex's will be more available and cheaper

and tbh with knowing it's been done i'm thinking why not go for it it may take time and money but such is the cost of satisfaction.

how big's the aw11 fuel tank

[Tiamat]

I would give some serious thought as to whether you go for 3SGE and the ITBs and ECU etc or just go for a 3SGTE. 220bhp straight out the block, runs off standard ECU, so no mapping, no aftermarket ECU, no fabrication. Could be the simpler project.

[DiYMCRT]

i'll have a look at woodsport and hopefully that might give me a better idea

cheers agen all

[tommundy]

how big's the aw11 fuel tank

It isn't exactly comparable to a GT car, only 9 gallons ish (I don't think I've ever managed to get this much in though!). I can still get over 200 miles out of a tank in my 3sgte'd Mk1, but have also just about emptied a tank in 110 miles when out playing with some friends in supercars. I imagine I could get well down below 100 miles to a tank if I ever track it.

I'm quite happy with the mpg figures that I get for how quick it is to be honest. 27-30 mpg normal driving, 18-25mpg when driving briskly.

HTH.

[mrfil13]

I had a Mk2 turbo conversion, i really miss the tubby

My fuel consumption was the same as tommundy really, motorway driving (steady) sometimes hit high 30s, i would balance that out though when coming off the M1 onto country roads

Im in a Mk1 NA now, keep putting my foot down in 2nd and expecting the power to kick in at 3k.

[DiYMCRT]

i've looked at mr.wood's write up and realisticaly i'm not sure i have the time for this it's alot of work as stated and presuming the mk1 is similar material to a mk2 i.e. thin! i wouldn't be confident welding it , i know a couple of welders one owes me favours but asking them to help me on such a big project i feel is abit cheeky.

looks like i'll be keeping my mk2 and getting the weight down to less than 1000kg as people seem to be hitting the 1100kg mark easily, i've also got a quite a few bits and bobs for my mk2 knocking around and some CBR 1000F carbs in the post so it makes sense to save money and stick mk2, get the engine running megajolt and carbs, i'd imagine tubby's have bigger valves would this be right? and presumably rev3 tubby will have the biggest valve diameter of all the non vvti engines?

the mk3 idea is nice but i don't see the point in putting a 3sge/gte in a mk3 tbh too much work for little gain over standard imo

i still love the idea of a mk1 3sge/gte maybe with a rav4 4wheel drive system just need to get time off with pay

[aw11rally]

i still love the idea of a mk1 3sge/gte maybe with a rav4 4wheel drive system just need to get time off with pay

I like the idea, as did Mr T when he designed the ST165 Celica. No point reinventing the wheel. I'm sure with enough time and a sharp hole saw the ST165 could get down to 1000kg and easily up to 300 ponies.

[PW@Woodsport]

i still love the idea of a mk1 3sge/gte maybe with a rav4 4wheel drive system

That's impossible i'm afraid.

[cabbydave1]

Where abouts are you? If your in the n/w your welcome to come and have a look at mine im half way through building theres loads of room in the engine bay even with the tubby engine in. The MK1 is a nicer drive in my opinion as my re3 n/a is like driving a couch even though everything is new on it not a patch on the mk1

[Tiamat]

i still love the idea of a mk1 3sge/gte maybe with a rav4 4wheel drive system

That's impossible i'm afraid.

Paul Woods in "thats impossible to do to a MK1" shock

[PW@Woodsport]

LOL ok you pushed me....if the engine was hung in the front (possible but major surgery), the petrol tank was a cell somewhere else, and the rear end converted to take an axle, then yes it's possible to use the RAV4 setup, but not possible keeping the engine in Mid layout..... well when i say not possible, if you had a custom trans made up with the transfer box take off facing forward it would then be possible to do, but i think we are talking £20k for something like that (just the gearbox).

So yes it's possible! Go for it!