[Mk2] [NA] Beams blacktop conversion.

[Juveda1]

Has anybody on here heard of a blacktop conversion? I have heard of people trying but having a problem with the dual VVTi and the sump hitting the suspension wall, I know a red top drops straight in, but I'm only interested in a black top.

Has anyone measured up a blacktop for a MK2? I don't mind making new mounts for both the block and box and im sure i'l need new driveshafts, but is there enough space for that dual VVTi head????

Theres a few blacktops on Ebay, loads in Celica's and Corrola's on youtube and my raceteam has one in a Van Diemen Multisport but I can't seem to find any MR2 Blacktops! Why not???

If there isnt anybody who has measured it, I think il be going for the conversion either way but help would be appreciated.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LEXUS-IS200-ALTEZ ... 230c948bdc

[todd]

Mind the blacktop from the auto is slightly underpowered to to the one found in the manual, slightly different internals.

[Juveda1]

Mind the blacktop from the auto is slightly underpowered to to the one found in the manual, slightly different internals.

Yeah I heard about that, Is this because they dont use Titanium valves on the autos?

[todd]

Something like that mate, lower compression on the auto, down about 10bhp on the manual.

[RST]

The second variable cam in the black top was primarily introduced for emissions reasons I beleieve rather than outright power although it does make about 10Bhp more acc. to the specs for the Altezza (208 rather than the 198Bhp for the SW20).

....Bear in mind the VVT-i BEAMS engines were race engines and exist as very de-tuned variants on the street. I'd question the effort involved if structural mods are required to fit it in the FS strut top area -when I managed just a smidge under 220Bhp on an unopened red top with just a decent filter, exhaust and an aftermarket ECU in my SW20.


www.mr2.com -look for the BEAMS section for all the answers you have regarding gen 4 VVT-i.

Theres a few blacktops on Ebay, loads in Celica's and Corrola's on youtube and my raceteam has one in a Van Diemen Multisport but I can't seem to find any MR2 Blacktops! Why not??? [Brick wall] [Brick wall]

...I don't know of any running black tops in Celi's apart from Banzais ongoing epic money no object build.

[Rosssco]

I believe the main hurdles are the inlet manifold (won't fit unless you cut the rear firewall) and the wiring will be problematic, but not impossible. It's still a 3S-GE, so will bolt straight to the various MR2 gearboxes.

A custom engine mount on the drivers side, and exhaust manifold back would be required. I believe the blacktop is slightly higher compression, and has some minor head differences to the red top (exhaust VVt aside!), but given these issues, a red top (apparently a grey top is physically the same, other than the CAT and ecu) would work out cheaper and just as effective, as RST says.

[Juveda1]

With a Grey top I would need to import from the USA and end up paying extreme money for the import tax and then the engine alone.

The red top is a good engine dont get me wrong, but theres more freedom with a Megasquirt ECU (which I will run) when runnning Dual VVTi when it comes to ECU settings and pre programmed engine conditions, differences between the red top and black top being Dual VVTi, titanium valves and yes higher compression with 11.5:1

But does anyone have the dimensions of the blacktop?? Ive looked online but I cant find them Now ive started emailing a few companies!

I'm begining to look at the 4G63T for my troubles with mounting, only difference being a mounting plate between the gearbox and block will need to be fabricated.

Its interesting to here about the intake manifold seems like another issue with what seemed to me as a failry straight forward fitment and hense why no one has done this before! The dimensions would be a usefull, again tho it looks like a whole new engine and gearbox "repositioning", which would push me more towards the 4G63T as the amount of effort and welding is probably going to be the same however with a bit more cost. The 4G63T comes with a MIVEC system and a turbo!

[RST]

Id have a careful look at what Thor are doing with their old school celica + black top (even though they're talking jewish typerwriter money and intitial results were quite dissapointing for a black top).

...have a lok at ECU's again, a few years ago anyway the only one's which supported the gen 4 were pretty much the Link and Motec.

I'll stand by earlier words, it'll be damned tight or not practical in an MR2 going by any google pics and measurimg my red top (tight as is). I know of one person claiming he saw a youtube pic of an MR2 with a black top -but nothing ever came of it in the last few years. There's also a bit of a complication though not insurmountable with the fly by wire pedal box.

I believe the blacktop is slightly higher compression,

...yea, can't remember how much above the gen 3 and red top, easy enough to find out on yahoo or the forum though.

Are you on the beams forum? -I think you'll find most of your answers on there.

[Juveda1]

Im not really a big forum user. So im not on the Beams forums. Could be worth a look.

For a Motec ECU I couldnt justify the cost?? I would rather use a Wolf 3D or a Megasquirt, Megasquirts can be cheap as you can buy D.I.Y kits that you put together yourself and they are open source so lots of people have preset maps for plenty of Engines, they also sell PIN adapters for conversions to different looms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pbXfCd_wMg

As for the Beams black top on youtube, it could be this idiot, and this is a Grey top. Closest ive found.

When you say your bay was tight for the red top I believe a red top just drops in on standard mounts?? How much room did you have for removing mounts and installing a new engine with engine mounts? I know a few lads on here have squeezed V6's in there.

I also just got quoted £1,650.00 for a 4G63T with ECU, Loom, flywheel etc etc.

[Juveda1]

I have the dimensions now.

This thread can be closed, thanks.

[raptor95GTS]

I have the dimensions now.

This thread can be closed, thanks.

you could always post those figures up?

[RST]

Im not really a big forum user. So im not on the Beams forums. Could be worth a look.

...if you're not a big forum looker but looking for beams QnA you could try the one forum dedicated to it!!??

There's actually lots of folk using these engines (comparatively speaking), just allot of them in kit cars and you hve to look hard to stumble across their websites or pictures of them hidden away.

[Juveda1]

Dimensions found.

Heres a link if anyone is interested:
http://z4.invisionfree.com/lexusaltezza ... t10693.htm

[pbmr2]

i thought that not only having the intake the wrong way round you also have the problem of the gearbox bell housing not lining up with any of the fwd gearboxes.
this is what i understand to be the main problems with using the black top in an mr2.

then there are the small things like water outlet etc but they are easily fixed.