Correcting a spin / tailslide anyone managed it?

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Razor04
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Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:25 pm

Correcting a spin / tailslide anyone managed it?

Post by Razor04 »

Managed to spin my rev3 turbo on the motorway at around 55/60 in the inside lane, the other night, there was loads of surface water and the back end just started aquaplaning.

I tried to correct it but the back end just kept coming round to a point where it just flew round and i was facing the 2 60ton lorrys i'd just overtaken.

with unbelieveable luck the car carried on sliding backwards and sideways into the hard shoulder where i managed to stop it.

Facing the wrong way down the motorway and just as the 2 artic's thundered past.

The car seemed to just be uncontrollable and i honestly though i was dead when it spun right round to face the oncoming traffic :pale:

Not a scratch on me or the car and i realise i was extremly lucky :pale:

Not looking for any tips like drive like a granny, or get some decent tyres lol

just anyone's experiences of losing the back end & wether it is controllable or just a death trap?

I've seriously lost confidence in these cars now as my previous black G-limited N/A did the same to me a few years ago.

I believe there is a point where it's just not rightable no matter what you try.
JohnnyC
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Re: Correcting a spin / tailslide anyone managed it?

Post by JohnnyC »

I've tried, and failed.

I think Lauren is the only one here who has the skillz to correct anything that goes wrong though :thumleft: :D
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OwenK
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Location: Coventry

Re: Correcting a spin / tailslide anyone managed it?

Post by OwenK »

The weight is so focused in the centre of the car that it's extremely quick to rotate - this is why they're notoriously "uncatchable". It's of course perfectly possible to catch a slide, (not that I have myself mind), but because of the low polar moment of inertia when it goes, it goes fast - as most of us have found out. The rev3 upgrades helped a bit, with wider rear tyres and changes to the suspension geometry - but the inherent nature of the car is to spin quickly, it's the downside to having all the weight in the middle. It's my understanding that a very skilled driver can use this to their advantage and is what makes mid-engined cars so nimble in racing - but for us mortals out on the roads, I think caution and respect is key.

Someone may well be along shortly to tell me it's all wrong and fitting XYZ tyre sizes or suspension geometry will make it more stable, this is just my understanding of the theory.
loudandproud205
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Re: Correcting a spin / tailslide anyone managed it?

Post by loudandproud205 »

happened to me


ended like this :(
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Image

there is a point of no return even more so in difficult conditions.

ive since made few upgrades to mine, like down sizing from 17s to 16s had the full geometry set up which to be honest has made the most difference.

currently looking at coilover set ups and polybush kits
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Got boost?
Kinda!!!
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Richie86
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Location: Telford

Re: Correcting a spin / tailslide anyone managed it?

Post by Richie86 »

I've had my tail end kick out unexpectedly before, was going for an overtake at the time, scared the sh*t out of me and no doubt the car behind and to the side.

Fortunately I managed to catch mine. I wasn't going very fast at the time so was much easier. However as it was completely unexpected and caught me off guard my heart was in my mouth.

From that day on, if there appears to be any surface water I take it really easy; I don't care if people think I’m driving like a granny. I'd rather them think that than cause an accident.
dazzz
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Location: manchester

Re: Correcting a spin / tailslide anyone managed it?

Post by dazzz »

You are one lucky cat.

I was coming back from Alton Towers in a bit of a convoy. As i went over the crest of a hill, the road slightly turned to the right. I drive up and down this road more or less everyday. I was only doing 55 in a 60 zone. As i went over the hill the back end slid. I was nearly sideways. Instinct kicks in and you just react. I didn't brake but just kept the power on slightly turned in and the car strightened up. The guys behind me were amazed, i was lucky to say the least. If i had been going faster things may not have turned out the way they did.

To make it even worse i had my friends GF in the car. She thought it was great and didn't realise we were very nearly dead. I didn't explain to her how close we had just come to death as it would probably give her nightmares.

It can happen to anyone, you just got to try and learn from it.
Razor04
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Re: Correcting a spin / tailslide anyone managed it?

Post by Razor04 »

Funny now you mention it, mine broke traction as i went over the crest of a rise, as i transitioned onto the downside the rear wheels broke loose.

it's probably something to do with the weight shifting from the rear to the front as the car drops over the crest :-k
mr2magic
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Location: Hannover, Germany

Re: Correcting a spin / tailslide anyone managed it?

Post by mr2magic »

This question has also been raised on the german board in light of an increased spate of accidents due to the change in weather. I my opinion there are three distinct factors that need to be addressed:

1) Date of manufacture of the car - 93 and upwards cars had different rear suspension geometry to try and take the bite out of the handling
2) What do I do if the back end starts to come round?
3) What do I do when after correcting 2) I experience snap oversteer?

1) To be honest I'm pretty certain the upgraded suspension didn't change a single thing due to the fact, that they added more power and torque to the motor at the same time. This offset any gain to be had through the increased traction if you ask me! Maybe Toyota should have fitted a fully adjustable setup from the get go?

2) What I and others have used in the past is to give it a squirt of power (no turbo!) to try and reduce the rotating force and aid rear wheel traction. This is only useful as long as you are not on ice or aquaplaning! In both these cases you must immediately declutch and steer like a mofo to get the car back online - the thing is to be quick....very quick!! Fortunately the MR2 gives a very good feedback on whats happening at the rear even if there are very few warning signs

3) Snap oversteer - the thing that caused professional testers to claim the MR2 was dangerous and not a car for the public. It's true even a few race drivers were unable to regain control of the MR2 after the rear had lost and regained traction and so went into snap oversteer. That said you can regain control as I found out while overtaking driving 100 km/h. I pulled over to the right to switch back into my lane only to feel the rear left try to overtake me :) My first instinct was to take my foot of the gas and steer against the slide. It worked for a short time until the rears found traction and started pushing the car forward again. Because the fronts were now opposite lock it was equivalent to trying to take a 90 bend doing 100 :shock: The rear end started sliding again but this time in the opposite direction. Thankfully I had the wherewithall to try and give it a bit of power instead - not to much just enough - and then to use the steering wheel. The rears gained traction pushed forward and then i used the wheel to turn the car back on line in a controlled manner.

This all takes place in a matter of seconds and must be practiced. I would like to know what experienced racing drivers say to this though :D Is it a technique generally used for twitchy mid engined cars?
NDR008
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Re: Correcting a spin / tailslide anyone managed it?

Post by NDR008 »

On my mk1, it snapped on ocassions but I have succeeded to hold it, but it was spooky and there were near misses - but I had terrible tyres too, and had spent for ever playing the with the setup I wanted, so not exactly stock set-up.

On my mk2, I have a rev 3 with D2 coilovers, 205/45/16 Toyo T1R, and 225/45/16 Fudal.

It gets sideways, but I can keep it sideways and can control it (i.e. keep it at a fixed sideways angle when it happens). No hairy moments so far.
Razor04
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Re: Correcting a spin / tailslide anyone managed it?

Post by Razor04 »

How do you "hold it"?

Not that i want to hold it, i'd just like to learn a few corrective techniques in case it happens again.

does it not snap the opposite way when traction is regained?
mr2magic
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Re: Correcting a spin / tailslide anyone managed it?

Post by mr2magic »

I'll take a guess here :D He gives it the beans and forces wheel spin while the rears are off traction. Doing this will force the car into a slide with a curve so is only possible when cornering :thumleft:

Am I right? :D
Rev 3 Kris
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Location: Stanley, Newcastle upon Tyne

Re: Correcting a spin / tailslide anyone managed it?

Post by Rev 3 Kris »

Funny reading this thought there would be people saying that they could catch and correct slides at high speeds and all the other bull, makes me feel better cause ive lost mine twice now and one was into an insurance shop backwards !! ](*,)
NDR008
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Location: Aichi-ken, Japan

Re: Correcting a spin / tailslide anyone managed it?

Post by NDR008 »

Razor04 wrote:How do you "hold it"?

Not that i want to hold it, i'd just like to learn a few corrective techniques in case it happens again.

does it not snap the opposite way when traction is regained?


My mk1 used to do that, snap opposite way when the traction comes back, and on most occasions I would only recover it after a few change of directions (each time with less angle kind of thing).
On some rare occasions I did turn the steering wheel fast enough when traction was back to keep going the direction I wanted.

(Mind you, close to where I work there is an oily round about, where many people spin off, I ALWAYS tipped toed in my mk1 round it, and even then I occasionally ended the wrong way).

In my mk2, I do not know, I was taking a corner under power, but the whole event was very progressive, as the slip feeling increased I was increasing my counter steer, and soon eventually straightened out again.

For the record, I used to hill climb sprint race and go-kart, so I am sure that had an effect.

Best advice I can give, is go to some track day circuit or airfield events, with big run offs, and learn what it is like to have the car get sideways and trying to recover it or using the run-off areas.
Steve-O 2007
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Re: Correcting a spin / tailslide anyone managed it?

Post by Steve-O 2007 »

Rev 3 Kris wrote: and one was into an insurance shop backwards !! ](*,)


:clap: :clap: :lol: :lol: :lol:

lol #-o

You realy need to ask this guy for advice I think -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jWZDRLh ... re=related
RST
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Re: Correcting a spin / tailslide anyone managed it?

Post by RST »

I've caught mine a few times. The first time was acariest and probably worst as I was going fairly fast, went right across and back a 2 lane slip road on the way up to join the dual carriageway. No other cars around me thank god.

I think I did very quick opposite lock corrections, don't think I attempted to touch the brakes and not even sure I even came off the gas pedal, not really very sure though as it happened so quick and it hasn't happened recently.

The only thing I can compare it to is the Aristo which seemed to go everywhere at first. Never slid the back out in any other car at 20mph before. Personally I found that a bit more alarming to correct than the MR2 but that's me just jinxed both cars now and I honestly can't say I'm a great technical driver!
Razor04
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Re: Correcting a spin / tailslide anyone managed it?

Post by Razor04 »

Steve-O 2007 wrote:
Rev 3 Kris wrote: and one was into an insurance shop backwards !! ](*,)


:clap: :clap: :lol: :lol: :lol:

lol #-o

You realy need to ask this guy for advice I think -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jWZDRLh ... re=related


yakusi special stage lol
I've watched that video alot if you notice virtually every drift is followed by an immediate drift in the opposite direction making use of the "snap oversteer" and it helps that all the bends are flowing the right way each time.
He does keep it under control though and within the width of the "road"
The bends / corners and space just are'nt there if it happens on a public road though :cry:
Ren0W
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Re: Correcting a spin / tailslide anyone managed it?

Post by Ren0W »

Happened to me as well, with my first MR2.

Pictures explain themselves I think...
http://picasaweb.google.com/renowsan/AccidentOldMR2#

lost control in the bend,
no grip on the rear tyres,
rear tyres got grip again and right away SNAP,
moving backwards towards the light pole,
crashed right into the drivers door, glass everywhere,

and as you can see, I turned around the pole, from the tarmac to the pave walk, and even took the pole with me, as the pole turned around as well.

It was a huge smack, and suffered from a concussion afterwards.

But it was a lesson as well.
I'm far more aware now, and taking it easy on at some places/times.
And even then had some scared pants shitting moments ! :pale:


And no, I wasn't racing with the other MR2. I was all alone, he showed up later on.
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Steve-O 2007
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Re: Correcting a spin / tailslide anyone managed it?

Post by Steve-O 2007 »

Ren0W, the reason that happened is because your steering wheel is on the wrong side of the car :lol: :mrgreen: :thumleft:


Glad your all ok, luckilly the only moments I have with mine is in the wet and I hit high boost in 1st / 2nd (and sometimes 3rd) the back end just spins up when you goto change gear and let off the go pedal and press the clutch with the tyres spinning it sends you off to the left a little bit but back on the power and it straightens up.

I have Rock hard Cusco coilovers, Aftermarket LSD, 18" Wheels and Falcon FK452's tyres. Had the car for 3 years with that setup now and luckilly no dodgy moments with it. Even in realy heavy rain (the heavy stuff where you turn the radio etc off just to consentrate on the road its so bad) and at 70+MPH I had no problems with it
Steve-O 2007
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Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:54 pm

Re: Correcting a spin / tailslide anyone managed it?

Post by Steve-O 2007 »

loudandproud205
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Re: Correcting a spin / tailslide anyone managed it?

Post by loudandproud205 »

i can only wish i could drive that smooth :(
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Got boost?
Kinda!!!
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