Rusty problem - advice from welders?

[widster]

Hi,

My car is now ready for it's MOT but the only thing stopping me from putting it in for the test is this area of rust i 'uncovered' when i was tidying the bodywork up underneath the back of the car ready for a new exhaust. I have now fitted the Mongoose exhaust after much head scratching as the hangers were bent as was pointed out by people on here - thanks.

I am not too good at bodywork and i can't weld. I had been advised previously that i can get replacement panels but this is a problem with the inner panel only. The outer panels are ok, for the moment. My questions are,

a) could i get away with filling this area and painting over it?
b) is it structural and likely to fail the MOT if not welded?
c) does anyone know of any welders in Leicestershire (or mobile) who will come out to weld a tiny repair panel on a bit of thin rusty bodywork?

I know it may seem insignificant but this little problem is keeping my car off the road at the present time as i do not know what to do!



[AREA INFRONT OF N/S REAR WHEEL]

Thnaks in advance to anyone who can help.

[MR2sRuleTheRoad]

Although its the end of the sill it isn't really a structural part of the car (the strength in the sills is a bit further down this is just bodywork really)Although it is close to a suspension mounting point so depending how fussy or how closely your MOT guy looks at it, if it was tidied up a bit he would probably pass it. I think I read somewhere that there can't be any serious corrosion within a 30cm radius of suspension mounting points or seatbelt anchorages, or something like that. But some of the crap ive seen pass at my local garages makes you wonder how hard they look.

The cheap quick fix would be to fibreglass/bodyfiller it and spray some stonechip/paint on there but your corrosion problem is only going to get worse and be twice as bad next time it needs attention. The problem is there is no replacement im aware of for the inner of the arch so it has to be fabricated by hand or modifying panels off something else. I.E expensive if your paying someone to do it. Depends how big your budget is I suppose.

[AW11 Forever..!]

Mine failed on exactly that area.

[widster]

Although its the end of the sill it isn't really a structural part of the car (the strength in the sills is a bit further down this is just bodywork really)Although it is close to a suspension mounting point so depending how fussy or how closely your MOT guy looks at it, if it was tidied up a bit he would probably pass it. I think I read somewhere that there can't be any serious corrosion within a 30cm radius of suspension mounting points or seatbelt anchorages, or something like that. But some of the crap ive seen pass at my local garages makes you wonder how hard they look.

The cheap quick fix would be to fibreglass/bodyfiller it and spray some stonechip/paint on there but your corrosion problem is only going to get worse and be twice as bad next time it needs attention. The problem is there is no replacement im aware of for the inner of the arch so it has to be fabricated by hand or modifying panels off something else. I.E expensive if your paying someone to do it. Depends how big your budget is I suppose.

Thanks for the informative response. This is just as i thought. I suppose i better seek out someone who is prepared to make up a panel and weld it for me. It's finding someone that i think might be difficult. It's at times like this that i wish i could weld as i'm sure this would be a nice little job to do yourself and quite satisfying when finished. Cheers.

[widster]

Mine failed on exactly that area.

Can i just ask, had you tried to cover it up/ repair with filler or was it left as shown in my photo?

[widster]

Thanks for the replies so far. I think i am going to try and get a panel made up and welded but i'm still none the wiser on who in the Leicestershire area might be able to help? Ideally what i'm looking for is an MOT place who will also do some welding? Alternatively, a mobile welder? Can any Leicester MK1ers help?

Thanks
Widster

[crazybrightman]

if it were me id just fibreglass it as welding it will be a sod, even if you tig it. its only cosmetic although as mentioned in the eyes of the mot its near a suspension mounting. fibreglass wont rust either and should last longer than the car.

[cartledge_uk]

Mine failed on exactly that area.

Can i just ask, had you tried to cover it up/ repair with filler or was it left as shown in my photo?

Mine failed on that area, I complained saying its not structural, they took no notice.

so....

went home and cut that corner off with an angle grinder then took it straight back, they couldnt fail it because it wasnt there

[Mk1Chris]

Mine failed there too.

But I had taken it to Central Cars in Loughborough, and Dave is a master of cheap welding fixes (and expensive ones too!)

Go see him and he'll MOT it, patch it if necessary, and then pass the MOT - sorted

[widster]

Three different ideas there. Using fibreglass looks tempting but i have a feeling that they will see the newly painted area and poke around then fail it. Cutting it off is something i hadn't thought of! Going to the place in Loughborough is probably the best option but i can't drive the car as it has no MOT or tax. Bit of a risk that one. Am i feeling brave? I could trailer it i suppose but extra cost. Anyway, thank you all. This is really the most useful site. I am on another forum for my main car and you are lucky to get one response there!

[flippin'eck]

I might be able to help you out with that, I'm mobile with the welder now but I'm up near Liverpool so I don't know if the cost of fuel for getting me down to yours & back might make it economically a nonstarter..

Guess it's an option if you can't find anyone closer.

I'd probably be inclined to grind it all back, then build it back up small strip by small strip, trying to make a one-piece repair might end up being a lot more effort than it's worth.. can always put a thin skim of filler over the top of the completed welding for effect if really thought neccessary?

[triplecustard]

I'm an mot tester.
I agree its not structural, but its within 30cm of a suspension mounting, also within 30cm of a seatbelt mounting so it must fail.
Also remember a repair must be continuous weld not spot welds. You can fail for an "inadequate repair" too !

[widster]

I might be able to help you out with that, I'm mobile with the welder now but I'm up near Liverpool so I don't know if the cost of fuel for getting me down to yours & back might make it economically a nonstarter..

Guess it's an option if you can't find anyone closer.

I'd probably be inclined to grind it all back, then build it back up small strip by small strip, trying to make a one-piece repair might end up being a lot more effort than it's worth.. can always put a thin skim of filler over the top of the completed welding for effect if really thought neccessary?

Thanks for the offer. I'll certainly bear it in mind.

[widster]

I'm an mot tester.
I agree its not structural, but its within 30cm of a suspension mounting, also within 30cm of a seatbelt mounting so it must fail.
Also remember a repair must be continuous weld not spot welds. You can fail for an "inadequate repair" too !

Thanks for the advice. So, filling the hole with wire mesh and plastic padding and painting over it with black paint then underseal is not really the way to go! I better try to find a local welder then, or work out how far Liverpool is! Cheers.

[crazybrightman]

fibre glass will be fine chap, any mot tester will get the little mot hammer bouncing back in their face before they bust it. welding will just cost you a fortune and they always rust through again anyhow.
oh and as for driving on the road you can legally drive to get your car mot'd without tax and valid mot as long as the car is insured and is deemed road worthy.

[widster]

fibre glass will be fine chap, any mot tester will get the little mot hammer bouncing back in their face before they bust it. welding will just cost you a fortune and they always rust through again anyhow.
oh and as for driving on the road you can legally drive to get your car mot'd without tax and valid mot as long as the car is insured and is deemed road worthy.

You know what, this makes sense and i'm going to follow your advice. No more debating. Cheers

[triplecustard]

if its a good car & worth keeping, repair it properly. Fibreglass & filler is a joke, cut all rot out, weld in new metal & rustproof & it will be repaired permanently. I did mine 6 years ago & they are tottally rust free now.

[triplecustard]

fibre glass will be fine chap, any mot tester will get the little mot hammer bouncing back in their face before they bust it. welding will just cost you a fortune and they always rust through again anyhow.

What a stupid bit of advice! How would you like to be in a car during a side impact if the sills were full of filler?

When repairing this section properly, you should remove all traces of rotten outer panel, then you will find that the internal webbing around the bottom of the B post near the seat belt points will most certainly be rotten too.
I cannot believe anyone could suggest using filler!

[b2hbm]

When repairing this section properly, you should remove all traces of rotten outer panel, then you will find that the internal webbing around the bottom of the B post near the seat belt points will most certainly be rotten too

ditto.

Although the actual section isn't what I'd call serious structural stuff, once rust has set in here I'd say 99% of the time it will be at the seat belt mounts, jacking point structure & suspension mounts, all of which you don't see until you start dismantling the outer skin. The MoT rules cover bodywork within 30cm of a load bearing section so really there's no argument. Yes, you could cut it away completely and get a pass but you're fooling no-one but yourself if you don't check out the internal steelwork.

I'm not a fan of MoTs because I think they've moved away from the original concept of basic roadworthiness, but they are there for a good reason - to keep unsafe cars off the road. And that's not just about the owner/driver safety. Just think how you'd feel if you bodge it and then have a shunt in which the passenger seat belt comes away sending your wife/girlfriend/kiddie into the windscreen ?

Think of the consequences and it's not hard to decide how you're going to repair it.

[crazybrightman]

FFS are people reading things right!!! fibre glass is super strong
what do you think alot of cars have been made of over the years? its a cosmetic panel!!!fibre glass will never rust and will bond to the metal sealing any small amount of rust left behind! where on earth did filler get mentioned? its not even visable why would you need filler?
the mr2's body work is a rubbish design with all sorts of places for rot to start why make the same mistakes toyota did?
and as for side impacts well if you were hit where this rust is it would be where the rear fire wall is so a cosmetic trim isn't going to save your life!
as for other rot well obviously you deal with that accordingly, but you will see that when removing the inner panel.