mr2 vs m3

[ENSMR2]

You talking about my post? If so whats so funny? Only saying what happened.

And must add the over taking bit happened on a straight.

No i meant the origional BMW forum thread, a true classic.

[Cliff]

I just tried to get round as quick as possible without sliding.

Don't you just hate it when the back end goes..

Don't get me wrong, I love it when I see cars drifting and the drivers are in control but with the MR2, once that back end steps out - it's gone..

[Lauren]

I just tried to get round as quick as possible without sliding.

Don't you just hate it when the back end goes..

Don't get me wrong, I love it when I see cars drifting and the drivers are in control but with the MR2, once that back end steps out - it's gone..

You can hold a slide in an MR2 no problem. It takes practice though.

[Cliff]

I knew someone was going to say that.

I'm quite confident in a front engined RWD car, but with the engine over the rear wheels it proves a bit difficult.

Maybe I should buy that track day in the For Sale section..

[Lauren]

I knew someone was going to say that.

I'm quite confident in a front engined RWD car, but with the engine over the rear wheels it proves a bit difficult.

Maybe I should buy that track day in the For Sale section..

I think you should!

*pats lots of trackdays etc..

[Cliff]

BTW, you do mean in a tubby don't you - Not a MK1?

[ENSMR2]

I was always told that if you slide round corners then you'd be scrubbing off speed.

[MR2Mania]

BTW, you do mean in a tubby don't you - Not a MK1?

A Mk1, or even a Mk2 NA, will be easier to drive quickly through the twisties than a tubby. But as Lauren says, go for the "driver upgrade". It's the best mod you can do, and one that even *I* will be doing once my car is up to trackdays (and I've been driving fast cars now for more than half my life).

[MR2Mania]

I was always told that if you slide round corners then you'd be scrubbing off speed.

Try telling Fango, (Emerson) Fittipaldi or Jackie Stewart that!

These guys are known for their 4-wheel-drifting techniques. There's sliding and there's driving the car at just over the edge of adhesion.

[ENSMR2]

Thats professional drifting though right. F1 drivers don't drift and thats proper racing for fast lap times. Drifters go in to bends fast to get big drifts/smoke as thats how they get scored.

[MR2Mania]

Thats professional drifting though right. F1 drivers don't drift and thats proper racing for fast lap times. Drifters go in to bends fast to get big drifts/smoke as thats how they get scored.

Yeah, basically. Often, terms used for handling are misused. For example, oversteer DOESN'T mean that the rear is swinging out. This is EXTREME oversteer. The correct definitions of oversteer and understeer involve comparing the "slip angles" of the front and rear tyres. For example, neutral steer is when the slip angles front and rear are the same. Now, since MOST cars only have steering at the front (ie the back is fixed), neutral steer means that you shouldn't have ANY steering lock on at all! Essentially, the car is mildly drifting around the corner.

Most racing drivers prefer neutral steering biased slightly towards oversteer, so that they're ever so slightly steering out of the corner. You don't tend to see this when watching a race on TV, as it's ever so subtle and happens quite quickly, but if you watched the way that Damon Hill was driving the Suzuki Leana around Top Gear's track recently, you'll see that he was getting the car to tuck in on turn in, with it oversteering just slightly.

[ENSMR2]

but if you watched the way that Damon Hill was driving the Suzuki Leana around Top Gear's track recently, you'll see that he was getting the car to tuck in on turn in, with it oversteering just slightly.

Not being big headed, but I was watching that and thinking hey, that looks like what I do! Edit : In the 1.2 Clio not the MR2!

My uncles lessons were worth it!!

[ryan]

Guys, I noticed that all the M3 kill stories are in a straight line? Anyone tried messing with one on some twisties?

I'll tell ya a little story about something I found very impressive. One of the directors of Dastek SA once had a BMW 3.0D. All he did to it was Unichip it, and then entered in a hill climb event in SA. The result was he came 3rd, behind an Ultima and a raced-up Caterham. Mind you, he WAS once SA Touring Car Champion!

I'm seriously thinking of getting a BMW 330d as an everyday car, as my tubby can no longer be considered as such. A Unichip and it's all that's needed for it to embarass some serious machinery (will enable sub 6 secs to 60mph, in a DIESEL!!).

I'm also a big fan of the new M5. Any car that can whoop the F430 in every way HAS to be respected. And the new M6 promises to be even quicker! Mind you, for that money, you could buy a Mk1, Mk2 and Mk3, and probably still have money left over for a deposit on a flat!

Hi Dino.
I had a little 'duel' with a 330D in some twisties a while ago. I really had to keep the turbo spinning fast and rev the nuts off the thing to keep up with the BM. I was always pulling him in of course, but I was shocked by these torque monsters. I didn't know the country road at all, but he certaintly did, or perhaps he was a better driver than me... or both

[GeoffC320]

I've seen the E46 being drifted on the Autocar Sideways Challenge for a couple of years now - they clearly have superb balance.

However the E36 which is a lot more common was not so impressive when I tried one. It just felt like a big soggy saloon to me - and not particularly quick either.

Totally in agreement that a lot depends on the driver - especially in the wet!

[senie]

tracking back about the e36 m3 evo (3.2) against a mk2 tubby. My director had one a couple of years back and i had the edge over him round the twisties (could be down to driver skils) and eased past on the straights.

the m3 may have 50:50 distribution, but does the rev3 tubby not have almost 50:50 and the rev 1/2 have 49:51 front/rear?

two different cars. personally, id go for a rev 3 tubby and as dino says a 330d and still wouldnt have spent m3 money!

[Lauren]

BTW, you do mean in a tubby don't you - Not a MK1?

have done it in both.

[Lauren]

tracking back about the e36 m3 evo (3.2) against a mk2 tubby. My director had one a couple of years back and i had the edge over him round the twisties (could be down to driver skils) and eased past on the straights.

the m3 may have 50:50 distribution, but does the rev3 tubby not have almost 50:50 and the rev 1/2 have 49:51 front/rear?

two different cars. personally, id go for a rev 3 tubby and as dino says a 330d and still wouldnt have spent m3 money!

MR2 is rear biased tbh.

[MR2Mania]

tracking back about the e36 m3 evo (3.2) against a mk2 tubby. My director had one a couple of years back and i had the edge over him round the twisties (could be down to driver skils) and eased past on the straights.

the m3 may have 50:50 distribution, but does the rev3 tubby not have almost 50:50 and the rev 1/2 have 49:51 front/rear?

two different cars. personally, id go for a rev 3 tubby and as dino says a 330d and still wouldnt have spent m3 money!

MR2 is rear biased tbh.

Yeah, as Lauren says, the tubbies are biased towards the rear. It depends on the spec list of the car, ie what options it has fitted, but generally they seem to average out about 42:58 F:R (which is actually very similar to most mid-engined Ferraris). This is great for traction, but can cause instability in some corners. I think it was during the last year's F1 season, the Renault had this weight distribution, and had great traction off the mark, but understeered in certain corners.

F1 teams tend to aim for 49/51, or 48/52. It's the best compromise for traction, handling and balance.

I've made a complex spreadsheet that allows me to "move" certain components around the car, in the hope to get closer to 50/50, but believe me, it's no easy feat. The best I've theoretically managed is about 45/55.

Still, set up the MR2 chassis properly (and IMHO, I think this means proper coilovers, as the standard setup is way too stiffly damped!), and it can be made to handle and grip VERY well.

[Rogue_zero]

my mates a persuit driver in cops, he drives a 5 series DIESEL! and he catches many "modified" cars that you would think would outrun him. Its the driver thats the important factor. Anyway even so he said the car is crap, falls apart and breaks easy and if it wernt for the computers and handling software it wouldnt go in a straight line, very twitchy. Im not a fan of BMWs noit cause of the car but beacause of the owner.

[Rogue_zero]

and he catches the homegrown supercars carring 300kgs of equipment and two people with the drag of the lights on the roof. Oh and its an auto too