Car won't start - ideas/help... ***UPDATE - STILL FUBARRED!!***

[KarlBristol]

Thoughts??

The diodes are fine in both alternators, and following tests today on both alternators they both turn out to be very healthy units. It's not the alternator at fault... There's something else going on.

OK, do me a favour.

Leave main alternator lead connected, but pull out 3 pin plug.

I will give that a go tomorrow
Pull it out and measure electrical draw again?

[Peter Gidden]

Thoughts??

The diodes are fine in both alternators, and following tests today on both alternators they both turn out to be very healthy units. It's not the alternator at fault... There's something else going on.

OK, do me a favour.

Leave main alternator lead connected, but pull out 3 pin plug.

I will give that a go tomorrow
Pull it out and measure electrical draw again?

Yes please.

It might help if we discuss this before testing. Give me a call anytime when you get 5 mins.

[KarlBristol]

I will do it tomorrow and try to give you a bell - work depending

Throwing ideas around but the absolute worst case scenario if I can't find the exact route of the issue, is that I install a kill switch on the alternator wire. Every time I get in the car I turn it on to engage the alternator and every time I get out I turn it of. This would still allow for the alarm etc to be engaged (thus not invalidating my insurance) and gives me the peace of mind that the car will have a working battery when I get back to it.

I'd prefer to find the route of the issue and solve it but its nice to know there's a basic solution if needed/I get to the end of my tether.

[Peter Gidden]

It'll need to be a BIIIGGGG switch since it'll need to be rated at same amps as the alternator.

Better would be a switch controlling a 80A relay.

Better still would be find the fault.

[Slarty]

Just throwing it out there, but it "might" be the wiring between the alternator and the battery.

Allow me to explain.

My niece has a lil old Fiesta. Every now and then the battery would go flat, over night. I done a drain check and found nothing. Done the usual of removing interior bulbs etc but still the problem persisted.

Eventually on trying to jump start the car one time, I got smoke from behind the block/under the inlet manifold.

It turned out that the main lead coming from the alternator to the battery (via the starter motor) had moved slightly, and burnt through. Occasionally it was shorting onto the block but providing enough resistance as to not cause a direct short.

It's a very long shot, but I swear I was pulling what remains of my hair out trying to find her issue.

[Rob]

What a top fella Peter is.

He has helped me before, even sending me expensive equipment to allow me to solve my issue remotely!

Not much in life genuinely impresses me but a businessman helping others like this really does!

[KarlBristol]

Right.... A bit of progress this evening

I removed the three pin cable from the alternator this evening.
My reading dropped from 0.41A to 0.04A

I then plugged the three pin cable back in raising the reading back to 0.41A and set about pulling all the fuses again whilst measuring the electrical draw.

I pulled the fuse in the frunk marked "7.5A ALT SENCING" and the reading dropped to 0.04A. So this area clearly holds the issue....

Off to research the web.
Any thoughts anyone?

[Peter Gidden]

Any thoughts anyone?

Yep. Save me writing a long, drawn out post, i've got accounts to do this evening. Give me a call anytime.

[Super_red]

Alternator, when the voltage regulator starts to die it can start to reduce the resistance between live and ground which causes a greater current draw.

[KarlBristol]

It's a brand new alternator though - as in its literally days old

Peter I will try to call you but I've been called back into work so I probably won't be able to If you find a chance to drop me an email or a voicemail at some stage it would be appreciated

[Peter Gidden]

If you find a chance to drop me an email or a voicemail at some stage it would be appreciated

VM left.

[KarlBristol]

I've done x2 double shifts in work so I hadn't been able to do the test you suggested until this morning...

I unplugged all the fuses in the engine bay fuse box....



No change at all. So I also unplugged every frunk fuse at the same time as well (other than Alt sencing). Still no tangible change.


I did remove this cable block though and the reading dropped from 0.41 to 0.04A



Not exactly sure where all those cables go/what they feed but they seem to have the same results as removing the alternator and alternator fuse... A positive one

What's next Peter?

[Peter Gidden]

What's next Peter?

Good progress! Big clue! Save me writing a long paragraph, i'll give you a call. I guess right now you're not out catching criminals!

[KarlBristol]

Good chat - next tests done with results below
I'm catching criminals this afternoon leave for work in about half an hour...

So I disconnected the three pronged alternator lead again... That bloody thing is a pain in the ass to get off!

Did a voltage test on the three ports as you said...
Going from right to left on the below pic I had the following voltage



11.53V
11.57V
10.80V

This would suggest that something's going on with the left socket/cable connecting to it I guess

Tbh it's a little mangled there as well when compared to the other two...

[synXero]

Karl

Have you considered another car?

[KarlBristol]

Karl

Have you considered another car?

With the amount I've now spent on this one..... It's not an option that sits comfortably with me

It's a labour of love and I've invested far too much time, effort and money in it

[Peter Gidden]

11.53V
11.57V
10.80V

This would suggest that something's going on with the left socket/cable connecting to it I guess

Voltages are perfect!

The slightly lower voltage is the charging warning light wire and the slightly lower voltage is the resitance of the filiament in the warning light bulb.

OK, i'll leave you a VM with your next test.

[KarlBristol]

So pulled the ECU wiring today in order to see if that had any effect.... No change on the parasitic electrical draw. So more investigation is needed.

There's a rogue cable in the boot which I think was originally from the ECU... Just need to find out exactly where



I think that the electrical issue is between the three pronged wire from the alternator to the engine bay fuse box. Pulling both the alternator cable or the wiring it's associated to in the engine bay fuse box has the same effect; the parasitic draw disappears. I will probably try to re-wire all three of them on Sunday to see if that effects it. I think that one of the. May have partially melted to the engine and could be shorting out

On a side note I also discovered that the boot light doesn't work in any way shape or form the cable going to it is only putting out 1V. I don't think that's enough to be lighting up the bulb in there. Thats a job/investigation for another day.

There will be no progress on the car issues tomorrow though as I'm off to Twickenham

Then I'm back to trying to fix the car again on Sunday

[Torero]

There will be no progress on the car issues tomorrow though as I'm off to Twickenham

Me too, a good performance from the Fjlians but they were never going to win.

A much better performance from the Welsh of course

It looks like you're getting very close to the solution Karl. Good luck and keep us updated.

[KarlBristol]

There will be no progress on the car issues tomorrow though as I'm off to Twickenham

Me too, a good performance from the Fjlians but they were never going to win.

A much better performance from the Welsh of course

It looks like you're getting very close to the solution Karl. Good luck and keep us updated.

Didn't realise you were going. Where were you seated?

The Fijians did a lot better than I expected to be honest and I thought that they put up a sterling performance. Even though the Barbarians won I wouldn't call it a convincing win. The first half was so scrappy and they just didn't link up at all - they didn't pass the ball out and seemed to be playing as individuals. They did seem to bring it back a bit in the second half though.

Really enjoyed it though
Left mine at 06:30 and got home at 01:10 - certainly memorable. I love the pub around the corner from the ground

I'm going back on June 1st to watch England vs Barbarians. Now that should be a good day out!!! You going to that one?

I thought these photos were quite good considering the amount of alcohol consumed!