[All] [Generic] Who is running a turbo 4-AGE engine??

[Chris Wilson]

Thanks Jim, and for the set of Carillo rods and the coil on plug coils. Arrived fine, well packed. I have made some steel caps for it, just for the hell of it

More progress, the plenum is done, it's been a nightmare and very time consuming, and as such, costly, but it's pukka with fully radiused bellmouths inside, flow bench tested, made of heavy walled spun alloy with a turned alloy trumpet shaped inlet pipe. Jenvey supplied the 65 mm throttle body and the fuel rail. The original Weber carb manifold was modded to take injector bosses and the fuel rail mounting posts. Just dummied it up on the engine, seems fine thank God. Tomorrow I ensure the measurements I took were accurate and the rear bodywork clears everything.....The whole caboodle was powder coated in crinkle black.

Once the bodywork clearance is verified it's engine out and full strip time, and order the pistons and cams, sort the turbo drain, and prepare the block I am going to use one with piston oil squirters. It's having billet steel main caps to add a bit more bottom end strength.

http://www.chriswilson.tv/plenum/plenum.html

Tomorrow has come today and the body work clears everything with ease, and I now know i have 3 options for the intercooler, all of which are possible, clearance wise, so i have pulled the engine this afternoon and will start to strip it tomorrow or Tuesday. i have to service a horrible Frontera diesel tomorrow, but hell, it helps pay the bills

I'll post some proper pics of the plenum off the engine later, I am very pleased with it

[Jim-SR]

that plenum is awesome!!! who did you use to make it? or did you make it yourself?

glad the rods and igniters arrived safely. be interesting to see them in use when this project is finished. better than them sitting in a box in my house!

[Chris Wilson]

I managed to strip the bulk of the engine today, now that I know I have plenum clearance and have 3 confirmed options for intercooling the thing. The only two problems I found were erosion of the Titanium Nitrate coating on a couple of tappet buckets. I COULD get them re coated, but the people that do it are slow, and don't like little batches, so I will just buy a few more buckets ready done from the USA. The other problem only came to light when I removed the crank, which is fully polished and really should be on our lounge table, rather than inside an old Toyota 4 pot! The Yanks love BS and certainly had someone's trousers down polishing this thing, it looks chromed. This engine had run perfectly, with perfect oil pressure and no apparent issues, and as you can see from the photos below all the main caps LOOKED perfect, but on undoing the (ARP) bolts on number 2 main journal the cap fell into 2 pieces I am intending to fit steel billet main caps anyway, and won't be using this block in the turbo build, so it's no big deal, but I was surprised how well a 10,000 RPM + engine had held together with only 4 fully functioning main caps....

I have decided to buy yet more rods, and have pistons with 20 mm pins made at 8.75 to 1 compression ratio. I will also run 3/8 inch rod bolts, rather than the very small, and expensive high spec 5/16 bolts in the current Carrillos. The turbo pistons may well be a bit heavier due to thicker crowns and thicker rings (I will go up from the current 1mm rings to 1.2 mm ones). So now it's time to get the 4A-GZE block cleaned, honed to round and parallel on the biggest current bore, some billet main caps fitted, line bored and honed, the head deck ground, and some custom pistons ordered from CP or JE. I can also spec and order the new rods, too. Finally I need to order the cams, which will almost certainly end up being a custom grind on billets. This is the part of the project I really enjoy, as things start to come together a bit. It's a good job I did decide on pursuing this project, if I'd been tempted to run it in N/A format any longer I suspect the bottom end would have let go

Photos of a genuine, and slightly broken, Formula Atlantic spec 4A-GE engine in bits at http://www.newbury-house.com/atlantic/atlantic.html

Cheers.

[Jim-SR]

looks like its a Loyning engine (the engine builder that made it). pretty sure it isnt a Hasselgren, ive seen a fair few of them and they always have the same distinguishing features, this one doesnt have them.

the TiN coating is a nice touch. not seen that on the buckets before. have you already made enquiries to get more and been told that they come with the coating on them from new? because ive seen a few sets of TRD followers, and thats the first time ive seen TiN coated ones! so those may have been specially coated, but im not sure on that

[Chris Wilson]

It's a Quicksilver engine Jim, Sandy over there and I are in contact, he used some coated followers, and has some left, thankfully. You asked if the engine was stressed, it's not, there are no loads of any consequence through it. Hasselgren did some cap girdles, I am going to phone them and see if they have anything left, and any photos of how it was done. Cheers Jim.

[crazybrightman]

blimey that caps well and truely a gonner! do the arp bolts have a shoulder that centres the main cap? as that could be the only reason it didnt seperate? the crank is a bit bling though i feel sorry for the guy that had to polish it

[Chris Wilson]

blimey that caps well and truely a gonner! do the arp bolts have a shoulder that centres the main cap? as that could be the only reason it didnt seperate? the crank is a bit bling though i feel sorry for the guy that had to polish it

The caps sit tightly in a location channel in the block, stopping them trying to rotate relative to the crank length, and the bolts hold them down against the block. The bolts should only see any real load in tension, but with a cap that's failed on the apex of its arch the bolts will also be seeing a greatly increased shear load. Needless to say the bolts will be binned, I am going to use studs and nuts anyway.

I *THINK* the crank will have been prepped by a flow technique, where mildly abrasive particulates are moved over all surfaces, I can't remember the correct trade term for the process.

[Bender Unit]

I am pretty sure Tomei do cap girdles for the 4age.

[Chris Wilson]

Found the crank has a .0015 inch bend in it. I may see if anyone is still around who feels competent to straighten it with a copper hammer, if not it'll have to be ground .25mm undersize on the mains. A new TRD crank is still available from the US, but at £3700 plus shipping it's cheaper to get Arrow to make a new one over here. I think ground .25 will be fine though.

http://www.toysport.com/New%20Products/Atlantic.htm


Got some billet mains caps from the USA, and they are just good for paperweights or bits of steel to make something else out of. They turned out to have come off engines that had ALREADY been line bored and honed and on my 2 blocks they are out by 5 thou, in a negative direction, hence scrap. Not happy... Rather than *iss about any more I am having CAD drawings done and having 3 sets of caps machined up over here, so i can use 2 sets and have a spare set to sell or whatever. I also have to pay 500 quid towards a fixture to machine them and the correct hone for the guys Sunnen machine. It's been a nightmare finding someone to do this line boring and honing CORRECTLY, most places ain't got a clue. If anyone is thinking of having caps on a 2JZ-GTE let me know, my man has the 2JZ fixture for his CNC machine and access to proper caps that fit his fixture, which is the sum extent of his Toyota fixtures!

The digital piston rendering is done and JE are making pistons, and Carillo are making custom rods. Perfect Circle are making the ring packs. I have decided to get 2 sets of pistons made, so I have a spare, plus 3 sets of rings. Spending a bit more now is a lot cheaper than ordering in single sets later.

Whilst waiting the five or weeks for the above I am looking at getting the intercooler made. I have made a swirl pot for it, as the commercially available ones were too tall for where I want it to go, and the pipe fittings came out in the wrong places.

[Chris Wilson]

Here are the CAD renderings for new billet mains caps, they are actually a lot better, strength wise, than the ludicrously expensive TRD ones, and can be made in a known decent material.

[jon_st205]

Chris, will you adopt me please?

[crazybrightman]

this project is full on to say the least! you will have a full on custom engine bar the head and block!
have you gone for the extra coatings on the je pistons?

[Chris Wilson]

No, I don't think this application will really benefit, the Yank pistons run a shed load of bore clearance and this won't be anything like the revver it is in N/A format.

Sorry, no adoptions I don't like kids, have none of my own, which helps me pay for this stuff, and an adult "adoptee" would need to come with a big finance package, (natural...) femininity, stunning looks, and with excellent housekeeping and garage keeping abilities

[tonigmr2]

Chris did you mention what size gudgeon pins the engine has? It is the one point in mine I am worried about. /edit found 19mm, is that what you went with? (Mine are 18mm on HKS pistons).

I think good move on the caps - I also have steel billet ones which were recommended by that 4age specialist we've discussed in the past...I also noticed recently btw on Driftworks a guy was selling OS TRD valves. I have in the past managed to get those for my engine! Rare now and might be worth considering for your build?

TRD crank price. Is that the same crank as the HKS (which I have in my engine)?

[Chris Wilson]

Original JE Formula Atlantic pistons that came out had 19 mm pins, the new rods and pistons will have 20 mm pins. Not sure if the HKS crank is the same, i doubt it. Farndon will make an Atlantic spec billet crank for £1200 or thereabouts, 8 week turnaround at the moment. Being blown I don't need more valve size, and i have spent more than enough already But thanks Toni!

[tonigmr2]

I just wonder if HKS and TRD are interchangable, as my pistons were in a TRD box but marked HKS (yeah I know they could've got transferred, but it's odd all the same!)

Suspect they all use the same manufacturer and brand you see. But then again my crank is a stroker crank and might be different.

Will you regrind the rods or are they 20mm? My carillos are 18mm which is why I stuck with that size gudgeon pin.

[Jim-SR]

I also noticed recently btw on Driftworks a guy was selling OS TRD valves. I have in the past managed to get those for my engine! Rare now and might be worth considering for your build?

that would be me. Chris has already seen the list of parts, he bought half of what was left already lol

[tonigmr2]

I also noticed recently btw on Driftworks a guy was selling OS TRD valves. I have in the past managed to get those for my engine! Rare now and might be worth considering for your build?

that would be me. Chris has already seen the list of parts, he bought half of what was left already lol

Oh right, LOL.

[Chris Wilson]

Right, these things take time Collected 3 freshly bored, decked and honed blocks all with custom billet main caps made and fitted and honed to size. All within 3/10 thou inch to size and roundness. Crank is being ground on the mains as there was 1.5 thou "bend" in it, but it's in such a bizarre place I suspect it was made like that from new. Carillo rods are made and here, as are the special low compression forged pistons and the ring packs. Once the crank is back here from grinding next week I can do a dry build, and get the head gasket made up to trim the CR. Kent sent the cams about 3 weeks ago, and they will need their shimming doing. So at LONG last the engine can go together soon I will post some photos soon.

[tonigmr2]