[Mk2] [Turbo] Strangled at high RPM or normal?

Anything and everything to do with mechanical issues with your Mk2

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davyboy
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:52 pm

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Strangled at high RPM or normal?

Post by davyboy »

Loser - well worth changing the clutch fluid with some fresh, as you probably know brake fluid is hydroscopic and will develop the spongy feel over time. The other thing to check is the rubber pipe which is next to the slave cylinder, gearbox end. This is one of the few perishable parts of the circuit an will only be fairly cheap to renew.

Also your fluid won't be lighter fuel :D =;

Have you never tried burning brake fluid...! #-o

Its awesome... put some in a tin and set fire to it, it burns for hours. And hours. And hours.... :thumleft:
mattcambs
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Location: Saffron Walden, Essex

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Strangled at high RPM or normal?

Post by mattcambs »

Lou-Lou wrote:I always ran my Mk2 Turbo on 95... never did it any harm!


rev1/2 are very fussy on fuel quality
the rev3 ECU is much more tolerant of lower RON fuel.

The OP has a rev2, so surely what he is talking about is normal for this engine/turbo - i.e. nice low down torque, but strangled above 5500rpm due to turbo/head flow?
Loser
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Location: Stoke-on-Trent

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Strangled at high RPM or normal?

Post by Loser »

Sorry, very bad at checking back here! Did the clutch fluid yesterday and it still does the exact same thing, and i still can't fathom it, does the clutch circuit have a servo assist or something?? :?

I used brake fluid we'd opened a good while ago, with the thought train that it absorbs water yes, which is really bad for brakes which get hot, but not a problem for a circuit that never gets hot, feels the same, and i'm sure it was full of lighter fluid, you could see the fresh DOT sitting underneath the old stuff!

What on earth is an ST205 CC?? (i know what an ST205 is though!)

I've not been able to put any money into it yet, (and i want to exhaust all other possibilitys before i spend money :mrgreen: ) cause it's costing me an arm and a leg in fuel and insurance, but the time will come.. eventually!


Matt Cambs, is the head different on the rev2 to rev3? I knew the turbo is, but will the head have trouble flowing past 5.5k regardless of the turbo?

Is it really normal for it to be so restricted at high RPM though? It seems crazy that toyota set a redline so high if it's making that little power up there, even in second i'm no where near the top of the rev range, to be honest i don't think it'd ever hit redline, just doesnt seem to have the grunt to pull it. Not that i like sitting at redline like, just the CRX was always so eager to bounce off it's, this seems totally different!



I'm running it on v-power at the mo, doing about 21 mpg :cry: :cry: :cry: and to be totally honest i've not noticed any change!

Wet roundabouts are fun, and i'm very impressed with the amount of grip (even from Nankangs! :lol: (crx had eagle f1's and wasn't worlds apart), but with standard wheels i can't get eagles unfortunately, what're T1R's like by comparison anyone?

Need more practice though, still panicing a bit on the limits :oops:

Don't think i'll ever be as fast as i could be in my CRX though :(
Steve-O 2007
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Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:54 pm

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Strangled at high RPM or normal?

Post by Steve-O 2007 »

Loser wrote:What on earth is an ST205 CC?? (i know what an ST205 is though!)


ST205 Charge Cooler :thumleft:

That definatly doesnt sound normal. My Rev2 is completely different, Floor it in 1st and your hitting the limiter easilly at about 35 - 40mph in about 1.5 seconds, bang it into second and your hitting the limiter at almost 60mph no problem etc. No way should you be struggling to hit the limiter.

Once you get it sorted you will be amazed at the power :mrgreen:
Drifter
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Strangled at high RPM or normal?

Post by Drifter »

yea mines a rev II mate, and i have no problems, kept up with a scooby of the mark the other day no problem, you must have something major wrong if its that slugish,

Leads, plugs, dizzy, rotar, cat, exhaust itself, maybe a fubar turbo, compression? so many things to check i could list them all day long :lol: best of taking it 2 a specialist mate, they'll prob sort it in no time.
mattcambs
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Location: Saffron Walden, Essex

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Strangled at high RPM or normal?

Post by mattcambs »

Loser wrote:Matt Cambs, is the head different on the rev2 to rev3? I knew the turbo is, but will the head have trouble flowing past 5.5k regardless of the turbo?


The rev3 head has better cams. Rev2 engines normally make more low down torque :D

I'd say a re-map would sort the fueling above 5.5k and give more power - the standard ECU pumps lots of fuel in to keep exhaust gas temps low (stops the CAT from being killed and engine runs cooler).

As above - a good service is the best place to start. Why not book into Rogue Motor Sport for a 40 point check up? :thumleft:
Loser
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Location: Stoke-on-Trent

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Strangled at high RPM or normal?

Post by Loser »

Do i look like i can afford a rogue m'sport 40 point check??? I can't even afford an avatar! :wink:

Going to be a month til i can actually afford to spend any money on it, but first will be a decat (is the cat a big cast iron lump bolted underneath the turbo, or should it be running paralell to the rear silencer (mate's nasp mk1 and mk2s both have something there, where mine doesn't)), see if that works, then start poking more expensive things.

Don't think the turbo is fked, there is a slight bit of oil coming through (collecting at the bottom of the IC) but nothing drastic, no blue or white smoke, but there is black (overfueling) with the taps fully open (same as a saab turbo apparently :lol: ) so not especially excessive and i don't think there's a boost leak. Still haven't stuck my boost gauge in it, but it reads off the scale of the standard one and even if i hold it down when it's above 6 and not really accelerating the turbo's still whizzing and the boost gauge doesn't drop into the scale range.. :mrgreen:

I worked out CC this afternoon lol It already has an eff-off IC no idea what it's from but it seems fairly decent (judging by it's massiveness and the quality of the welding) but i was thinking roof mount.. one day (think RS200)



No reason to suspect anything wrong with the headgasket (no white smoke or mayo anyway!), no blue smoke so i can only assume the rings are ok, and the engine sounds sweet (sweeter than my crx even though that had nothing wrong with it!)


Only slight thing perhaps is the coolant makes a boiling sound after i switch it off, i did bleed it but forgot to turn the heaters on #-o so i'll be doing that again soon! But having just looked at the manual there seems like there should be some air in that pipe (water level in the reservior tank thingy)



It's noticably faster than the CRX, and that had little trouble keeping up with an evo9 on the lanes going to my old job (he was pulling away on the straights a little, but i was faster round the bends... officer) and i'm inclined to think i'll definately crash it if it's any faster, but hey that's the fun part!
mattcambs
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Strangled at high RPM or normal?

Post by mattcambs »

the bubling noise in normal after a blast :D
jimGTS
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Strangled at high RPM or normal?

Post by jimGTS »

dyno might tell you and us a bit more??
Loser
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Strangled at high RPM or normal?

Post by Loser »

I really cant afford anything at the mo, although i'm starting to sway towards new dizzy time, gave it some boot tonight and it started coughing (for want of a better word). Very little power beyond 6 except for little bumps where it pulled quite alot. Reminds me a little of a problem i had with the CRX. Will a mk2 NA dizzy or a mk1 NA fit? Just to try and see if it helps. Will be pulling things off if the weather stays good!
Loser
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Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:22 am
Location: Stoke-on-Trent

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Strangled at high RPM or normal?

Post by Loser »

Bit of an update! Got a boost gauge on there finally, and a different MBC, and here's what i've found:

9psi, but it takes absoloutely ages to get there, in 1st it'll be able to make perhaps 3psi, by the end of second 6, then towards the top of third 9psi. Is it normal for it to take so bloody long to spool? Thought with such a small turbo it'd be fairly easy??


And some very bad news, i have a disgusting rattle coming from it at part throttle, i thought it was the ball and spring type MBC (which i cant adjust very far, it's come with the wrong adjuster bolt in it.. i mean really how hard is it to get the correct bolt :evil: ) so i swapped it back to my old MBC, (gay bleed valve type affair) and the noise is still there. It does however seem ok at full throttle, or maybe the noise of the air and exhaust is covering it up.

I hope (pray) it's the turbo, or less, but now it's really slow, compared to how it was at least.

I can't find any boost leaks (not that i've touched anything installing the MBC and gauge)



Also the bleed valve was plumbed in strangely, the regular hose from the compressor housing was tee'd into, one hose went directly to the wastegate, and the other to the bleed valve. From the bleedvalve the other hose went to the VSV nipple on the wastegate.

That should work (more like standard really!) but obviously a ball and spring type can't be plumbed in that way. I've put the MBC in the compressor housing to wastegate hose, then plugged up the VSV line with a bolt and jubilee clip.

One thing i have noticed is the hose leading to the VSV isn't plugged, but i've got a feeling it's been plugged at the VSV end, i will plug it up when i won't burn my hands though!

That is to say the VSV outlet nipple on the wastegate IS plugged, but the line leading to the VSV isn't.

Hope someone can help!
jimGTS
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Location: North Kent

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Strangled at high RPM or normal?

Post by jimGTS »

get under the car and have a look around the tvsv components and there pipes.
Loser
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:22 am
Location: Stoke-on-Trent

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Strangled at high RPM or normal?

Post by Loser »

I've not had an oppertunity to get under and have a poke around, but i have been able to make a video!

Could anyone tell me if boost is supposed to take so long to build up :?

In both runs i was in 3rd gear, foot to the floor until i lift (i made it pretty obvious!)

Sorry for the loooong doing nothing time inbetween runs!



The video has JUST been posted, so it wont be available for a little while, but here's the link, should be ok in 15 mins or so :D


Remember this is a C26 baby turbo.. i'm sure it used to shoot up far faster than this!
Steve-O 2007
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Strangled at high RPM or normal?

Post by Steve-O 2007 »

I cant see the link :wink:
Loser
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:22 am
Location: Stoke-on-Trent

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Strangled at high RPM or normal?

Post by Loser »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToBGY2zl0uI

A ha! here it is, sorry about that, youtube was being really really really slow, and it took bloody ages to upload, and i had to go out, just clicked submit when i left without thinking lol


Zero boost is 6 o'clock (on the video, in life it's 9 o'clock), and the boost numbers you can't read are 5 10 15.. to 30. In the second pull it shoots almost straight away to 0, then starts slowly climbing to 9.



The horrible noise it's making is a kind of nasty fluttering sound, but as soon as it starts making some kind of boost it goes away?? What sound(s) does a dying turbo make?


In other news, what are the 2 nipples that come off the stock dump valve supposed to be connected to? Mine are both connected to the inlet manifold, but i was under the impression one would need to be connected before the TB???




I really like this car (alot more than i expected myself to!) but i don't think i'll own it for long as working on it p1$$e$ me off ALOT, and i'm not flush enough to pay someone else to do it for me!
Driftlimits Performance
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Strangled at high RPM or normal?

Post by Driftlimits Performance »

did you look inside the engine?
Loser
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Strangled at high RPM or normal?

Post by Loser »

Look inside the engine for what? And look where?
RobCrezz
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Strangled at high RPM or normal?

Post by RobCrezz »

No, it should not be spooling that bad, should be getting to at least 7psi in first gear around 4000rpm.

I reckon you have a boost leak, just make sure by getting some really soapy water and spray it on the boost hoses and around the intercooler while the cars running, might be a dodgy jubilee clip or something, they are notorious for not clamping hard enough and leaking boost with aftermarket intercoolers, mikalor clamps hold them tighter.

edit: sorry for the bump
Loser
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Strangled at high RPM or normal?

Post by Loser »

Think it was either the coil or ignighter, replaced the coil this weekend and at the same time baked the ignighter then sprayed it with PCB laquer, runs perfectly now! :mrgreen:
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