[All] [Generic] The modifying scene in decline?

[James Junior]

Has anyone else pondered the thought that we are a dying breed?

Modifying is surely a hobby in decline?

Modern car makers deliberately make their cars more and more difficult for the average grease monkey to work on – these days on a newer car you can’t even change your own spark plugs! A money making scam to ensure all servicing is carried out main dealers, or a response to the higher technology in place that shouldn’t be dabbled with by the average amateur mechanic? Hmmmm…

Also performance models have become more and more capable and focussed straight out of the box. Look at the latest hot hatch offerings for example – VXR, Focus ST, Civic Type R et al.

Surely as new performance cars are so good/ aesthetically pleasing straight out of the factory the market for aftermarket alloys, bodykits, mods etc is steadily evaporating?

It seems that many car makers took cues from the modifying world in recent years - aggressive body kits, clear indicator lenses, painted callipers and bigger wheels.

I remember when 17” alloy wheels first became fashionable. At the time many purists complained that they looked too big, lead to inferior handling etc and that the fad would never catch on. Here we are six years later and now 17” wheels don’t even raise an eyebrow. Hot hatches and performance cars of today roll off the production line commonly wearing 18” and 19” wheels.

Also look at the success of the MG cars (I mean in popularity obviously, not the mismanagement of the company!) where they took an obsolete fleet of boring budget cars, gave them a text book modifiers makeover (even down to the morrette style lamps!) and proceeded to sell bucket loads of the things!

With the average performance car now built to be more in tune with the demands of the enthusiast, what room is there for amateur modifying?

Is re-mapping the new future of modifying?

All thought and input welcome!

Let the debating ensue…

[mcoppen]

I can see your point. However very few modified cars are new cars. I know of very few people who would buy a brand new car and mod it heavily due to fear of reducing residual value and warrnty invalidation. Therefore i dont think the secene will die out, the type r/vxr of today will be getting modded, but just not for another 5-6 years.

[James Junior]

Do you not think however that there isn't really anything that can be done to improve or modify the current crop of newer performance cars?

For example, in three years time if you were to buy an Astra VXR, how would you modify it?

It already has a focussed suspension set up, body kit, nice wheels, excellent interior etc...

[Alex B]

Do you not think however that there isn't really anything that can be done to improve or modify the current crop of newer performance cars?

For example, in three years time if you were to buy an Astra VXR, how would you modify it?

It already has a focussed suspension set up, body kit, nice wheels, excellent interior etc...

It's a very relative and subjective thing. In 5 or 6 years time, there may well be new trends to how cars are modified. This may well open up the possibilities on cars that, out of the box, don't appear to lack in the styling and performance stakes.

At the moment Carbon Fibre is big, lightweight and funky looking. Who knows what will be next, Boralyn? Ti-Composites? Titanium Weave Reinforced Carbon Fibre??

You have to think outside the box. Where there is a will, there is a way. We may even see a complete role reversal. As cars are being spat out of production lines appearing to be quite 'hot' in the looks stakes we may very well become life threateningly bored by all that and decide to go back to 50s trends... who knows.

I wouldn't write off an industry that has been known to adapt all to well to changing trends

[MrGazz2]

A lot of cars go through a phase after they have been around for the 10-15 year mark where they are heavily modified, and then as the car gets older, the mods become more subtle. Eventually they disappear almost completly other than very standard looks that you would expect from a specific model of vehicle.

Of course there are execeptions but there seems to be a set time period where a car becomes cost-effective in terms of performance and being modded, and a time when it becomes pointless to modify the car due to its age. The MR2 is towards the end of this curve I think, but will continue for a while yet because the length of time that the car was manufactured over.

When a car first comes out, its usually too expensive or un-known for your average guy on the street to mod and only high profile bodyshops work on them, then the price starts to drop and the mods start to appear on more vehicles as various kits become more widespread due to decreasing manufacturing costs.

[Steve-O 2007]

but just not for another 5-6 years.

With the way Tax and Fuel price is going, in 5-6 years time cars might only be for the rich while us poor bastards have to walk / bike everywhere lol

[Razor04]

good topic, it would be a pretty sorry modifying scene if all we had was the latest remap to compare. As long as the cars from the 90's golden era of JDM are still on the road we're still in business but as you say we're a "dying breed" and most of our rides are at least 10 yrs old now.

[Slarty]

Has anyone else pondered the thought that we are a dying breed?

Modifying is surely a hobby in decline?

Modern car makers deliberately make their cars more and more difficult for the average grease monkey to work on – these days on a newer car you can’t even change your own spark plugs! A money making scam to ensure all servicing is carried out main dealers, or a response to the higher technology in place that shouldn’t be dabbled with by the average amateur mechanic? Hmmmm……

Not quite true. They "look" impossible to work on, but that's only because they don't want you to. To change a set of plugs (as per your example) isn't any different on a new car than it is on a 20 year old car. You just have to get through the layers of silly plastic trim to get to them

Also performance models have become more and more capable and focussed straight out of the box. Look at the latest hot hatch offerings for example – VXR, Focus ST, Civic Type R et al.

Agreed, new cars are certainly a breed apart even in comparison to cars made only 10 years ago. I think a lot of it is to do with peoples expectations, some people simply want a car that's faster/better handling etc straight out of the box. Doesn't mean that people have stopped wanting to be different though. Lots of manufacturers for example offer different body styling bits and bobs to make peoples cars look different.

Surely as new performance cars are so good/ aesthetically pleasing straight out of the factory the market for aftermarket alloys, bodykits, mods etc is steadily evaporating?

Well no, because not everyone will think that the exact look of the car is what they want. The wheels might not quite "sit" right for example, or they might want some more agressive skirts/bumpers/lights etc. Most mainstream cars will be a compromise of many different aspects. The ride height, stiffness (oh er) or even the tone of the exhaust. New cars have to adhere to strict Euro noise regulations which will spawn (forever more I hope!!) better sounding exhausts that also flow more freely and offer up a few extra ponies.

With the average performance car now built to be more in tune with the demands of the enthusiast, what room is there for amateur modifying?

Is re-mapping the new future of modifying?

Honestly, I don't think so. Everyone is different, and I can't imagine that ever changing. Look at the MR2 community for a start. Some like looks, some like handling and some like outright speed etc. While the human factor of individuality remains, people will want their cars to be "different" from all the others.

I agree it is becoming more difficult to do things yourself. ECU's being a pretty good case in point. Many years ago now you could simply change the jets or needle (SU anyone?) of your carb to handle a relatively mild increase in air flow into/out of the engine. That simply can't be done with modern cars.

It's a pretty good question/point/debate but I think it's safe to say that the "modding" scene will be with us for a good few years yet. Imagine that in 10 years time (or less) all the current hot hatches etc will be going second hand for cheap prices allowing people money to tinker with their new purchases......

[PJ3074]

Do you not think however that there isn't really anything that can be done to improve or modify the current crop of newer performance cars?

For example, in three years time if you were to buy an Astra VXR, how would you modify it?

It already has a focussed suspension set up, body kit, nice wheels, excellent interior etc...

James, there is guy in Maidstone (Kent) called VXR Mark who's mates with another guy in the area called Paul Dalton (Owner of Miracle Details..aka the £5K car valet, sorry car detailing) and when he bought his VXR Astra from Greens of Rainham he spent a cart load of coin on extra modificaions and customisations...his car is in Arden Blue and looks the nuts and I think is now running well over 350Bhp.

Also, one of the guys who I work with, his brother his a VXR technician at Greens of Rainham and they are the only dealer in the UK who do serious mods to the VXRs...i.e. 500Bhp Conversion on the Monaro and VXR-8.

Their workshops are fully booked with petrol heads wanting more out of their VXR cars.

I think Vauxhall is the only manufacturer doing a full range of tuneable performance cars with dealers like Greens doing the work that keeps warranty in check and customers happy..... from me.

Toyota on the other hand has well and truly fallen off the perch from its 80's and 90's heydays of Supra, Celica, MR2 beasts.

[TubbyTwo]

i dont think its in decline, i think attitudes change the older you get.

i dont care about body kits or big wheels for example, for me its about performance.

which is what im getting increasingly more interested in and the mechanical side.

I cant think of any new cars i would like that are in my price range which is why i will always stick to older ones

[Harry]

I remember when 17” alloy wheels first became fashionable. At the time many purists complained that they looked too big, lead to inferior handling etc and that the fad would never catch on. Here we are six years later and now 17” wheels don’t even raise an eyebrow. Hot hatches and performance cars of today roll off the production line commonly...

The so called purist are conservative people with Imagination but lazy with it they are followers not leaders they are order takers not rebels they believe In what they are told to be the gospel and again are lazy to question It.They believe In not fixing It till It breaks and leaving well alone.They believe they know It all.Well...

Q:-Have you seen a man eat his own head?

A:-No

R:-Well then you have not seen it all!

[JAP BOY]

I would like to think i've got common sense guys but i feel abit strange:::

Imagine this the cost of living is gone up by 3%
Inflation is on the rise rapidly
Fuel is rocketing

Why did some one say eeeee ooooorrrrrrr when they heard i was still modifying my MR2

May be we are a bunch of donkeys lol

[Alex B]

I've had a few expressive remarks along those lines Jap Boy. When I said to some I bought a cheap MR2 and modding it for the track.

"Your spending more than the vehicles worth?!!?" being the most common comment of distain.

The way I see it, I buy a cheap car, replace all the bits that need replacing for the track for not a significant amount of money that may need replacing anyways, have a damn good time with the car because at the end of the day, it isn't worth much money. If I stack, big deal.

Compare that to a shining example; replace good parts with new performance parts(!) spend a fortune on a good car, possibly spend more money on bits (depends on vehicle) then ultimately drive it like a pansy because it cost so much money to buy and modify.

[Lauren]

If anything though its getting easier to mod a car. I can buy a chip for my panda diesel and get another 20bhp for not a lot of outlay.

Having extensively modified a number of cars myself however, I have come to the conclusion that modifying a car is generally not worth it. If you want a faster, better peforming car, then buy a faster/better performing car rather than modify the car you've got in an effort to achieve it.

That said there is loads of fun in a project car, something you can spend hours working on making it into the car you want it to be. I'd love to do this with an AE86.

Part of the reason for us buying the integra was simply because it does not need any mods (well apart from the big brake conversion that was on it when we bought it), its fab straight out of the box. We even run OEM tyres because the balance is so good.

As my partner Mark says:

http://www.mr2.net/standardisbetter.html

[zak_godsell]

there is a monaro upgrade called the carbon edition and that has about 630bhp

[James Junior]

Do you not think however that there isn't really anything that can be done to improve or modify the current crop of newer performance cars?

For example, in three years time if you were to buy an Astra VXR, how would you modify it?

It already has a focussed suspension set up, body kit, nice wheels, excellent interior etc...

James, there is guy in Maidstone (Kent) called VXR Mark who's mates with another guy in the area called Paul Dalton (Owner of Miracle Details..aka the £5K car valet, sorry car detailing) and when he bought his VXR Astra from Greens of Rainham he spent a cart load of coin on extra modificaions and customisations...his car is in Arden Blue and looks the nuts and I think is now running well over 350Bhp.

Also, one of the guys who I work with, his brother his a VXR technician at Greens of Rainham and they are the only dealer in the UK who do serious mods to the VXRs...i.e. 500Bhp Conversion on the Monaro and VXR-8.

Their workshops are fully booked with petrol heads wanting more out of their VXR cars.

I think Vauxhall is the only manufacturer doing a full range of tuneable performance cars with dealers like Greens doing the work that keeps warranty in check and customers happy..... from me.

Toyota on the other hand has well and truly fallen off the perch from its 80's and 90's heydays of Supra, Celica, MR2 beasts.

Interesting what you say about the VXR Astra - I read that even standard they suffer from torque steer and struggle to put the power down. Would have thought would be pretty inhibitive to raising the power further but obviously not.

Everyone raises some interesting points.

As someone mentioned, with the broader concerns such as the emissions witch hunt and obviously rising fuel prices the future of the enthusiast in general looks threatened.

Will be interesting to see how the moddifying scene develops (or not as the case may be) over the coming years.

We all know the moddifying game is a total money pit but at the end of the day if your passionate about something and enjoy it then why not?!

[TheRoadWarrior]

Well lets take your points in order

Modern car makers deliberately make their cars more and more difficult for the average grease monkey to work on – these days on a newer car you can’t even change your own spark plugs! A money making scam to ensure all servicing is carried out main dealers, or a response to the higher technology in place that shouldn’t be dabbled with by the average amateur mechanic? Hmmmm…

Maybe. I hear this a lot, mainly from the older generation.. i cant work on my new car. i used to just tweak the carb etc etc. I think modern cars are just as tuneable.. its still an internal combustion engine at the end of the day. It just takes different tools, maybe you're using a laptop rather than a screwdriver

Also performance models have become more and more capable and focussed straight out of the box. Look at the latest hot hatch offerings for example – VXR, Focus ST, Civic Type R et al.

I disagree with this point, i actually think modern cars have become a lot LESS focussed. The latest civic type-r is heavily euro-ified and decidedly un-JDM. (The JDM civic is another story of course) The performance models are often quick, theres no denying. The other week i had a new Golf GT Sport TDI as a hire car. Its a diesel, but its quick. Point-point its very very fast.. it'd never beat a tubbie off the line, but it was very quick on the b-roads... BUT it was totally uninspiring or engaging. It was safe, i gave it hell and i never felt like i was going to end up in a hedge backwards. After about 15minutes i felt i knew everything about driving it, compare that to the MR2.. i've had mine 3 years and i'm still learning things about driving it- it make you focus when you go out in it and appreciate when you nail a good gear change etc.

Surely as new performance cars are so good/ aesthetically pleasing straight out of the factory the market for aftermarket alloys, bodykits, mods etc is steadily evaporating?

Stock is boring. Just because new cars now look more modern than older cars doesnt mean they're better. People into modding will always want to tinker/finesse stuff.. thats whats its all about! I bet someone said the same about the MR2 20years ago... "How would you improve on that, it looks so much better than my austin allegro!"

It seems that many car makers took cues from the modifying world in recent years - aggressive body kits, clear indicator lenses, painted callipers and bigger wheels.

But whats good for the masses isnt always good for the individual. Make the suspension more hardcore, reduce the body roll or increase chassis stiffness.. theres always stuff to do.

I remember when 17” alloy wheels first became fashionable. At the time many purists complained that they looked too big, lead to inferior handling etc and that the fad would never catch on. Here we are six years later and now 17” wheels don’t even raise an eyebrow. Hot hatches and performance cars of today roll off the production line commonly wearing 18” and 19” wheels.

Also look at the success of the MG cars (I mean in popularity obviously, not the mismanagement of the company!) where they took an obsolete fleet of boring budget cars, gave them a text book modifiers makeover (even down to the morrette style lamps!) and proceeded to sell bucket loads of the things!

With the average performance car now built to be more in tune with the demands of the enthusiast, what room is there for amateur modifying?

Is re-mapping the new future of modifying?

All thought and input welcome!

Let the debating ensue…

All in all i think modifying has got a lot of life left in it, and as long as people want something individual and different it'll continue. WOO!

EDIT: The other one i forgot is the dreaded roadtax/emissions. If you mod an older car, you can do what the hell you like!!

[PJ3074]

I think modification is still a great hobby...afterall you are spending time on your pride n joy...so nothing wrong with that. The only problem for us MK1 people will be finding new toys for the car...it took me a while to get a supply list together for all things MK1...Janspeed have even dropped the exhaust system for the MK1

New cars for me have become a bit anodyne, thats why I enjoy the MK1 so much, proper old skool 80's and 90's cars are just brilliant. Guy up my road has just bought a mint MK1 Golf Convertible and is toying with putting a V6 into it...you wouldn't bother with that sort of thing on newer stuff would you.

[jadapc]

Don't forget that to come up with any type of mod, companies need to put a lot of money and time into developing and testing them. On new cars, you cant expect mods to be available so soon after their release. Few years on, there will be ways.

[afennell]

They modded the NSX and that still is a fantastic car and perfectly setup as standard. You are also seeing heavily mudded RX8s and 350z.
Also turbo charged new M3s.

I know what you mean though, I think it’s slowed down in Japan. I have heard they are buying more German and Italian cars rather then there own heavy weight contenders.

Ie, the new mrs is not in turbo form, Toyota don’t produce a Supra anymore, or a twin turbo Aristo. The new Celica is front wheel drive with no 4 wheel drive or turbo version.

Nissan seem to be the only Contenders with a true animal, the new GTR.

Even the old Ford Cosworth is faster and better handling then the new RS focus, and allot easier to tune.

Cars are getting slower so lets stick with making the old even better.