[Mk2] [Turbo] mr2 handling at speed

[The Morris]

Is it me or does the front end get a bit light when cornering at speed. Also when you catch bumps at speed, it doesnt seem solid.

I have removed the spare wheel to save weight and have Bilsteins.

Is there anything you can do to make it more solid or is this the case for all MR2's

[luthor1]

You need to modify the Universal Joint in the steering colum just before the rack.

It has a rubber disc in which when heavily loaded allows the wheels to turn without transferring that movement to your fingers - it can feel like it's winding and unwinding a coil spring through fast corners.

I've removed that disc and bolted it up tight and now fast corners are millimetre perfect.

I've got a photo of what I turned my UJ into if you'd like...

[Mikejc]

Pillow ball tension rods improve feel no end and come highly recommended The MR2 could use some extra down force at the front, something I have come to realise. Connards would be a worth while investment. Making the underside of front end as flat as possible would also make a big difference. Both of the above I intend to do myself shortly

MikeJC

[king_stephen_paterson]

put the spare and the other junk back in the front, its too light on the front end without removing stuff! OR stick another turbo engine in the front to power the front wheels and weight the front end a bit more. I think the 1st option will probably be chaper though.

[luthor1]

I'm not kidding guys, don't overlook what I wrote above. I've spent literally hundreds of pounds on all the right parts, new swivel joints, solid tops, yellow billies, poly bushes, and the *ONLY* thing that fixed what he's talking about is removing this springy rubber disc in the steering system.

[Mikejc]

put the spare and the other junk back in the front, its too light on the front end without removing stuff! OR stick another turbo engine in the front to power the front wheels and weight the front end a bit more. I think the 1st option will probably be chaper though.

It's a common misconception that more weight will aid front end grip and feel. That extra weight will only cause the front end to run wide when cornering

It's an interesting idea regarding the rubber section My only concern is that it is most likely in place for shock absorbing reasons. That being the case premature wear could be the result. Not such an issue on a track based car as the circuits are super smooth, but the roads are anything but!

Thoughts?

MikeJC

[Harry]

Pillow ball tension rods improve feel no end and come highly recommended The MR2 could use some extra down force at the front, something I have come to realise. Connards would be a worth while investment. Making the underside of front end as flat as possible would also make a big difference. Both of the above I intend to do myself shortly

MikeJC

Done those also see 'Garage' here with one or two ideas.


Test fitted in image only then.

Thanks to Rogue Motorsport.

[luthor1]

the steering rack is mounted on rubber bushes, I did contemplate this issue before butchering my UJ!!

I figured it was mainly done to prevent transmitted vibration, since my wheels are nicely balanced and I am after more of a 'drivers' feel, I actually wouldn't mind increased vibration, but surprisingly there isn't any.

Just EXCEPTIONAL high speed controllability and confidence - I can't tell you the difference when pushing HARD at around 70mph with the tyres chirping, it is like a different car.

I'm sure mine (being a 1993) were actually worn out a bit, so improvements would be there for a *new* UJ, but nonetheless my solution was virtually free and only took 5 minutes.

[Spacey]

Interesting discussion.

Luthor I'd be really interested to see some pics or get more info about your mod.

I'm looking at making the feel / handling as good as I possibly can. Being a newbie to track driving I need the car to give me as much confidence as possible

New suspension goes on this week then the car goes on a diet, including getting rid of the spare etc. etc.

[Mikejc]

the steering rack is mounted on rubber bushes, I did contemplate this issue before butchering my UJ!!

I figured it was mainly done to prevent transmitted vibration, since my wheels are nicely balanced and I am after more of a 'drivers' feel, I actually wouldn't mind increased vibration, but surprisingly there isn't any.

Just EXCEPTIONAL high speed controllability and confidence - I can't tell you the difference when pushing HARD at around 70mph with the tyres chirping, it is like a different car.

I'm sure mine (being a 1993) were actually worn out a bit, so improvements would be there for a *new* UJ, but nonetheless my solution was virtually free and only took 5 minutes.

Any pics by chance? Very interested at looking in to this

MikeJC

[gavinl]

the steering rack is mounted on rubber bushes, I did contemplate this issue before butchering my UJ!!

I have bought replacement poly bushes for steering racks on other car.

I wonder if someone like Powerflex would be interested in making a poly bush set for the steering rack and UJ.....assuming there would be enough takers to make it worthwhile of course.

[anna]

put the spare and the other junk back in the front, its too light on the front end without removing stuff! OR stick another turbo engine in the front to power the front wheels and weight the front end a bit more. I think the 1st option will probably be chaper though.

It's a common misconception that more weight will aid front end grip and feel. That extra weight will only cause the front end to run wide when cornering

It's an interesting idea regarding the rubber section My only concern is that it is most likely in place for shock absorbing reasons. That being the case premature wear could be the result. Not such an issue on a track based car as the circuits are super smooth, but the roads are anything but!

Thoughts?

MikeJC

I was under the impression that the grip generated by a tyre is a function of the normal load on the tyre. (so putting the spare back in the front may help to increase ultimate cornering forces available at the wheel, although if you are accelerating hard at the time, it might not make any difference))

The rubber section in the steering column will be there for NVH. Nothing else . If there were any other function I would be very surprised.

A.

[luthor1]

Anna - since the co-efficient of friction is less than "1" then any gain made by pressure between the tyre and road is off-set more so by the increased lateral force on the vehicle. If the co-efficient is greater than "1" then cornering gains will be made by increased weight, but to the detriment of accelleration.

[Harry]

[quote="Spacey"]Interesting discussion.

I'm looking at making the feel / handling as good as I possibly can. Being a newbie to track driving I need the car to give me as much confidence as possible

Good idea

Also going to be a newbie to track never done one but will get Jonb.
to test the car out so will be well funny and weird sitting in the passengers
seat

Prefer to leave the spare wheel in myself.

[Spacey]

Also going to be a newbie to track never done one but will get Jonb.
to test the car out so will be well funny and weird sitting in the passengers
seat

Good idea, he lives 10mins from me so might be worth a PM...

[Mikejc]

put the spare and the other junk back in the front, its too light on the front end without removing stuff! OR stick another turbo engine in the front to power the front wheels and weight the front end a bit more. I think the 1st option will probably be chaper though.

It's a common misconception that more weight will aid front end grip and feel. That extra weight will only cause the front end to run wide when cornering

It's an interesting idea regarding the rubber section My only concern is that it is most likely in place for shock absorbing reasons. That being the case premature wear could be the result. Not such an issue on a track based car as the circuits are super smooth, but the roads are anything but!

Thoughts?

MikeJC

I was under the impression that the grip generated by a tyre is a function of the normal load on the tyre. (so putting the spare back in the front may help to increase ultimate cornering forces available at the wheel, although if you are accelerating hard at the time, it might not make any difference))

The rubber section in the steering column will be there for NVH. Nothing else . If there were any other function I would be very surprised.

A.

When corning the weight will shift in the opposite direction to that you are turning, hence creating under steer and nothing else. Makes perfect sense when you think about it

MikeJC

[Quigonjay]

the steering rack is mounted on rubber bushes, I did contemplate this issue before butchering my UJ!!

I figured it was mainly done to prevent transmitted vibration, since my wheels are nicely balanced and I am after more of a 'drivers' feel, I actually wouldn't mind increased vibration, but surprisingly there isn't any.

Just EXCEPTIONAL high speed controllability and confidence - I can't tell you the difference when pushing HARD at around 70mph with the tyres chirping, it is like a different car.

I'm sure mine (being a 1993) were actually worn out a bit, so improvements would be there for a *new* UJ, but nonetheless my solution was virtually free and only took 5 minutes.

i think there are a few people that would appreciate a full write on this, myself included

[mattcambs]

the steering rack is mounted on rubber bushes, I did contemplate this issue before butchering my UJ!!

I figured it was mainly done to prevent transmitted vibration, since my wheels are nicely balanced and I am after more of a 'drivers' feel, I actually wouldn't mind increased vibration, but surprisingly there isn't any.

Just EXCEPTIONAL high speed controllability and confidence - I can't tell you the difference when pushing HARD at around 70mph with the tyres chirping, it is like a different car.

I'm sure mine (being a 1993) were actually worn out a bit, so improvements would be there for a *new* UJ, but nonetheless my solution was virtually free and only took 5 minutes.

i think there are a few people that would appreciate a full write on this, myself included

Seconded. I am VERY interested in this mod.

Also, since replacing my worn Bilstein coilovers with standard black billies and Eibach springs I actually miss some of the directness in the steering the coilovers gave (even though they were too stiff for road use). This I'm mainly putting down to now having rubber top mounts.

[anna]

Anna - since the co-efficient of friction is less than "1" then any gain made by pressure between the tyre and road is off-set more so by the increased lateral force on the vehicle. If the co-efficient is greater than "1" then cornering gains will be made by increased weight, but to the detriment of accelleration.

Okay - for added weight... If he could shift weight to the front though..., and at a lower centre of gravity, then everyones a winner

Anyway, back to the posters question - have you had your wheels and tyres balanced? What pressure are you running at? How much 'dead zone' do you have in the steering when travelling at speed in a straight line?

[The Morris]

Anna - since the co-efficient of friction is less than "1" then any gain made by pressure between the tyre and road is off-set more so by the increased lateral force on the vehicle. If the co-efficient is greater than "1" then cornering gains will be made by increased weight, but to the detriment of accelleration.

Okay - for added weight... If he could shift weight to the front though..., and at a lower centre of gravity, then everyones a winner

Anyway, back to the posters question - have you had your wheels and tyres balanced? What pressure are you running at? How much 'dead zone' do you have in the steering when travelling at speed in a straight line?

33 rear 31 front

steering is fine.

Wheels and tyres are pretty new and balanced

It just seems to get a bit bouncy at higher speeds and the steering feels a bit light, almost as though it might take off. I guess it needs more downforce, but just wondered if this was a commen feature on MR2's