There's a few of you already been down this road on here
Sooooo.....
Does anyone have a list of do's and don'ts or the best way of going about it and more importantly what oil to use. I've always used Mobil 1 Motorsport 15W 50 in mine but i'm aware that you shouldn't use any kind of semi/fully synthetic for running in.
[Mk2] [Turbo] Running in a rebuilt 3S-GTE and what oil to use???
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[Mk2] [Turbo] Running in a rebuilt 3S-GTE and what oil to use???
Engine rebuilt by: Steve Horrocks & Andy Jones
Engine mapped by: Ryan@2bartuning (330 bhp & 325 lbft @ 1.4 bar)
Current Status: F****D
Engine mapped by: Ryan@2bartuning (330 bhp & 325 lbft @ 1.4 bar)
Current Status: F****D
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Running in a rebuilt 3S-GTE and what oil to use???
For running in keep well away from any good oil!
You want cheap almost crap oil, the reason being you want things to bed in and thus not good oil. Change it after 100 and 500 miles.Both oil and filter.
After this you can get slightly better oil and leave it in for 1000 miles.
You can then step up to good oil but still keep away from real good oil until you have done over 6000 miles. If you use super dooper oil before this you will stop the bedding in process and can cause bores to glaze.
When running in do not let the engine labour. Don't drive it hard but you can let it rev but not under full throttle.After the 500 mile oil change you can step it up a little. After 2500 you can give full throttle but not to the redline or you can rev it high but not full throttle.
I have been told the above by a few engine bulders with over 30 years behind them and never had a problem doing this myself on 4 engines I have built.
HOWEVER someone will come along and say this is rubbish. There are many differing views on whats best.
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You want cheap almost crap oil, the reason being you want things to bed in and thus not good oil. Change it after 100 and 500 miles.Both oil and filter.
After this you can get slightly better oil and leave it in for 1000 miles.
You can then step up to good oil but still keep away from real good oil until you have done over 6000 miles. If you use super dooper oil before this you will stop the bedding in process and can cause bores to glaze.
When running in do not let the engine labour. Don't drive it hard but you can let it rev but not under full throttle.After the 500 mile oil change you can step it up a little. After 2500 you can give full throttle but not to the redline or you can rev it high but not full throttle.
I have been told the above by a few engine bulders with over 30 years behind them and never had a problem doing this myself on 4 engines I have built.
HOWEVER someone will come along and say this is rubbish. There are many differing views on whats best.
Ad
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Running in a rebuilt 3S-GTE and what oil to use???
You want a mineral oil andy, something like 20w50 comma
as for running it in, I wouldn't baby the engine, idealy on a fresh build without new cams I would drive it for about 50 miles, check for leaks etc, drop the oil, replace for fresh mineral oil and then start putting load on the engine.
Set yourself an imaginary limiter, say 5000rpm, dont go above this but give it full WOT upto it in various load conditions, dont let the engine labour either. after 200 miles or so of this, I would drop the oil again, put in fresh mineral run for another 800miles with the imaginary limiter and once you have done 1000 miles in total on your new engine the put some decent oil in and away you go, rev it and use your engine as you normally would
as for running it in, I wouldn't baby the engine, idealy on a fresh build without new cams I would drive it for about 50 miles, check for leaks etc, drop the oil, replace for fresh mineral oil and then start putting load on the engine.
Set yourself an imaginary limiter, say 5000rpm, dont go above this but give it full WOT upto it in various load conditions, dont let the engine labour either. after 200 miles or so of this, I would drop the oil again, put in fresh mineral run for another 800miles with the imaginary limiter and once you have done 1000 miles in total on your new engine the put some decent oil in and away you go, rev it and use your engine as you normally would
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Running in a rebuilt 3S-GTE and what oil to use???
Ive done it both ways, babyin it in and on my last engine the hard way.
The way ive done it this time was to use a cheap mineral oil & high idle from 1st fire up for 15-20mins to bed new cams in,
I then drove it 2 miles to the mot station and back.
Obviously checked for leaks and then drained the cheap mineral oil & refilled with the same, and also changed filter.
It then went out whilst getting mapped and within 1hour/30-40 miles it had gradually seen upto 1bar of boost and 7.5k revs.
I then drained the mineral oil and re-filled with silkolene pro fully synthetic, changed the filter again and the next morning set off to the dyno at scooby clinic, whilst seeing upto 1.3bar and gradually increasing the rev limit to 8.5k Probably around 80 miles there.
Then whilst wasting time on the dyno due to various probs (oil pressure gauge giving up/methanol pumps cracking etc ) only gettin mapped to 1.4bar iirc and 8.5k, then driven the 80miles home.
It then got driven around another 30miles before going to rstuning and being mapped to 1.7bar and 8.5k, covering another 250miles or so
The engine didnt and doesnt use any oil and shows perfect compression across and produces good power even after only probably 2,000 dyno/drag/racing miles!
But....when i babied it in before i used fully synthetic from the word go and run it in soft only 5k half load until 900-1000 miles...
and the engine didnt use any oil either and had great compression across the board and good power
So ive used both ways with success
Michael.
The way ive done it this time was to use a cheap mineral oil & high idle from 1st fire up for 15-20mins to bed new cams in,
I then drove it 2 miles to the mot station and back.
Obviously checked for leaks and then drained the cheap mineral oil & refilled with the same, and also changed filter.
It then went out whilst getting mapped and within 1hour/30-40 miles it had gradually seen upto 1bar of boost and 7.5k revs.
I then drained the mineral oil and re-filled with silkolene pro fully synthetic, changed the filter again and the next morning set off to the dyno at scooby clinic, whilst seeing upto 1.3bar and gradually increasing the rev limit to 8.5k Probably around 80 miles there.
Then whilst wasting time on the dyno due to various probs (oil pressure gauge giving up/methanol pumps cracking etc ) only gettin mapped to 1.4bar iirc and 8.5k, then driven the 80miles home.
It then got driven around another 30miles before going to rstuning and being mapped to 1.7bar and 8.5k, covering another 250miles or so
The engine didnt and doesnt use any oil and shows perfect compression across and produces good power even after only probably 2,000 dyno/drag/racing miles!
But....when i babied it in before i used fully synthetic from the word go and run it in soft only 5k half load until 900-1000 miles...
and the engine didnt use any oil either and had great compression across the board and good power
So ive used both ways with success
Michael.
TOTB 2010 Rwd top speed, 1/4 and shootout winner.
10.7@142 on R888 street tyres, 10.3@134mph on slicks,
9's on slicks to come, with a clean full throttle pass! Goal of 0-150mph in a 1/4 of a mile....
10.7@142 on R888 street tyres, 10.3@134mph on slicks,
9's on slicks to come, with a clean full throttle pass! Goal of 0-150mph in a 1/4 of a mile....
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Running in a rebuilt 3S-GTE and what oil to use???
I am a strong believer in micheals method above, running an engine in on the dyno is most probably the best way to do it.
I have mentioned this before in some other threads. This is my method from researching how people who build them every day do it.
Something to note is that bearings and cams dont bed in, the bearings are only there to create oil clearances, you crank and rods run on the oil, not on the metal of the bearing, if they did, it wouldnt live very long!
The cam journals are machined in this way also, oil pressure is what keeps these parts cool and creates a fine high pressire film for everything to run on.
What you are bedding in is the rings. And for a good long life healthy engine the most important running is the first 50 miles.
Let the car fast idle for 15-20 minutes on cheap mineral oil, change oil and filter.
Drive the car and make sure you give it some gas, up to 10psi of boost on light controller hrottle to about 4000rpm, on a na engine you have to make sure you give it some load. The rings are what your bedding in, and to do this you need to force them into the cylinder walls, cylinder pressure does this, but if you dont create any it wont be aswell.
I like the method of accelerating to 4000rpm in say 3rd gear, and then letting the engine break down to say 2000rpm, then acclerate again, different gears for varying rpms. Basically lots of varied driving, plenty of gear changes, not contnuous rpm. i then after 50 miles changed the engine oil and filter again.
What your trying to do is throw lots of different things at the rings, technically its all to do with the geometry of the rings and mating them to the cylinders. I dont know that much indepth, I just know that if you want a healthy compression and no oil consumption this is how you do it.
After 50 miles, i took it up to 5000rpm, similar driving style, then 7000rpm after 100 miles. Then it drove to the dyno and finished bedding in producing 360rwhp before 500 miles was reached, the again peaking 425rwhp just under 1000miles.
I like frequent oil changes, you dont need to many, but for the cost of cheap oil and filters against your engine costs, its not worth not changing.
13k miles later, 168psi on all cylinders and just been on the dyno and going back next week,
Best thing car salesmen do is thrash your new car before you buy it lol
Each person has their own way and opinions, all i can say is that this definitly worked for me.
Good luck
Graeme
I have mentioned this before in some other threads. This is my method from researching how people who build them every day do it.
Something to note is that bearings and cams dont bed in, the bearings are only there to create oil clearances, you crank and rods run on the oil, not on the metal of the bearing, if they did, it wouldnt live very long!
The cam journals are machined in this way also, oil pressure is what keeps these parts cool and creates a fine high pressire film for everything to run on.
What you are bedding in is the rings. And for a good long life healthy engine the most important running is the first 50 miles.
Let the car fast idle for 15-20 minutes on cheap mineral oil, change oil and filter.
Drive the car and make sure you give it some gas, up to 10psi of boost on light controller hrottle to about 4000rpm, on a na engine you have to make sure you give it some load. The rings are what your bedding in, and to do this you need to force them into the cylinder walls, cylinder pressure does this, but if you dont create any it wont be aswell.
I like the method of accelerating to 4000rpm in say 3rd gear, and then letting the engine break down to say 2000rpm, then acclerate again, different gears for varying rpms. Basically lots of varied driving, plenty of gear changes, not contnuous rpm. i then after 50 miles changed the engine oil and filter again.
What your trying to do is throw lots of different things at the rings, technically its all to do with the geometry of the rings and mating them to the cylinders. I dont know that much indepth, I just know that if you want a healthy compression and no oil consumption this is how you do it.
After 50 miles, i took it up to 5000rpm, similar driving style, then 7000rpm after 100 miles. Then it drove to the dyno and finished bedding in producing 360rwhp before 500 miles was reached, the again peaking 425rwhp just under 1000miles.
I like frequent oil changes, you dont need to many, but for the cost of cheap oil and filters against your engine costs, its not worth not changing.
13k miles later, 168psi on all cylinders and just been on the dyno and going back next week,
Best thing car salesmen do is thrash your new car before you buy it lol
Each person has their own way and opinions, all i can say is that this definitly worked for me.
Good luck
Graeme
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Running in a rebuilt 3S-GTE and what oil to use???
lots of info on 'hard' break in here: clicky
the guy puts over a very convincing case, in line with the advice already offered
the guy puts over a very convincing case, in line with the advice already offered
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Running in a rebuilt 3S-GTE and what oil to use???
Thanks for all the info guys
I've been doing some reading and also phoned RC today (who have done most of the previous work on mine) and they've said don't take the soft and gentle approach as stated above and agree with what you've already pointed out.
Fast idle for a bit when 1st started up then drop the oil and change filter. Then it's ready to be driven and don't be gentle, Constantly put load on the engine using high gears but don't let the turbo hit full boost and don't take it too high up the rev range. Regular oil and filter changes up to 500 miles and then it should be ready to re-map on the dyno.
I've managed to aquire some Comma Premium 20W 50 but it says on it not to be used on turbo engines
Do i try not to worry about this too much because the oil won't be staying in for long and it certainly won't be getting thrashed during run in. But a friend has used the same oil running in his turbo'd Vauxhall engine and said the turbo must have been cooking it because after 100 miles it came out like p1$$. RC also mentioned they use 10W 40.
More questions (Yes, I probably worry too much)
I've been doing some reading and also phoned RC today (who have done most of the previous work on mine) and they've said don't take the soft and gentle approach as stated above and agree with what you've already pointed out.
Fast idle for a bit when 1st started up then drop the oil and change filter. Then it's ready to be driven and don't be gentle, Constantly put load on the engine using high gears but don't let the turbo hit full boost and don't take it too high up the rev range. Regular oil and filter changes up to 500 miles and then it should be ready to re-map on the dyno.
I've managed to aquire some Comma Premium 20W 50 but it says on it not to be used on turbo engines
Do i try not to worry about this too much because the oil won't be staying in for long and it certainly won't be getting thrashed during run in. But a friend has used the same oil running in his turbo'd Vauxhall engine and said the turbo must have been cooking it because after 100 miles it came out like p1$$. RC also mentioned they use 10W 40.
More questions (Yes, I probably worry too much)
Engine rebuilt by: Steve Horrocks & Andy Jones
Engine mapped by: Ryan@2bartuning (330 bhp & 325 lbft @ 1.4 bar)
Current Status: F****D
Engine mapped by: Ryan@2bartuning (330 bhp & 325 lbft @ 1.4 bar)
Current Status: F****D
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Running in a rebuilt 3S-GTE and what oil to use???
I've also heard that variety is the best strategy. Different revs, loads and plenty of braking. I'm surprised that people use cheap quality oil, would've thought at this crucial stage of an engine's life good quality oil should be used but I'm obviously wrong.
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Running in a rebuilt 3S-GTE and what oil to use???
dawolf, people use cheap oil simply because the changes are so frequent it doesnt matter how quick the oil breaks down. it wont break down within a few hundred miles
I run fully synth after 500 miles
Graeme
I run fully synth after 500 miles
Graeme
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Running in a rebuilt 3S-GTE and what oil to use???
Interesting read.
Graeme / Greeny,
Do you still stand by your run in procedure?
I'll hopefully be running mines in next month so a few things to keep in mind!
Graeme / Greeny,
Do you still stand by your run in procedure?
I'll hopefully be running mines in next month so a few things to keep in mind!
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Running in a rebuilt 3S-GTE and what oil to use???
Who rebuilt the engine? You should follow their recommended process because if it all goes boobs up they are the ones who will need to fix it.
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Running in a rebuilt 3S-GTE and what oil to use???
I used Millers 10w40 running in oil, under varied load for 400 miles then swapped to 10w40 millers cfs after did the job well.
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Running in a rebuilt 3S-GTE and what oil to use???
J-1 you're with Pete aren't you? It's always recommended to run the engine in the way the builder says. But in essence:
Lots of boost
Limit revs 5k, then build up to max over 1000 mlies.
Run in with cheap oil, frequently changed (spec given by builder)
Worked perfectly for me.
Lots of boost
Limit revs 5k, then build up to max over 1000 mlies.
Run in with cheap oil, frequently changed (spec given by builder)
Worked perfectly for me.
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Running in a rebuilt 3S-GTE and what oil to use???
most of the bedding in is done in like the first 50miles.
as above, hard running in is the best method.
boost, load, engine braking is want you want.
anyone telling you to baby it for 1000s of miles is on crack, they are really suggesting this so they dont see you for months and months on end and can then insinuate you done something wrong if and when you start to use oil.
i would limit revs to 5k rpm for first few 100 miles.
as above, hard running in is the best method.
boost, load, engine braking is want you want.
anyone telling you to baby it for 1000s of miles is on crack, they are really suggesting this so they dont see you for months and months on end and can then insinuate you done something wrong if and when you start to use oil.
i would limit revs to 5k rpm for first few 100 miles.
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Running in a rebuilt 3S-GTE and what oil to use???
Hez wrote:I used Millers 10w40 running in oil, under varied load for 400 miles then swapped to 10w40 millers cfs after did the job well.
Used the same Millers running in oil with mine for 250 miles and then changed to 10/40 Gulf Competition and my engine was perfect.
No 2
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Running in a rebuilt 3S-GTE and what oil to use???
Thanks for the replies fellas.
Engine still isn't in yet so I've still got plenty time before I do the first 50 miles...
Still to go over this with Peter. But I think I'll take the mixed (road and dyno) approach - if Peter agrees.
It'll be EvoTune (Durham) or Wallace Performance (Aberdeen) for dyno / mapping.
Is it recommended to stay at or below a certain boost pressure for my first mapping session, or can it be mapped to anything?
Engine still isn't in yet so I've still got plenty time before I do the first 50 miles...
Still to go over this with Peter. But I think I'll take the mixed (road and dyno) approach - if Peter agrees.
It'll be EvoTune (Durham) or Wallace Performance (Aberdeen) for dyno / mapping.
Is it recommended to stay at or below a certain boost pressure for my first mapping session, or can it be mapped to anything?
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Running in a rebuilt 3S-GTE and what oil to use???
I also highly recommended the millers