Best way to make up a turbo kit?

[androo007]

Hi guys,

Looking for some guru input here....

Bit premeture I know, but want to try and start saving up towards next summer when I hope to upgrade the turbo on the car.

Currently have a td06 and mapping with a link G4 which I'm hoping will snatch me up to 370hp ish (I see trickster got over 430 on 1.5 bar ?!) But want to take a step up from that.

Goal is 450hp / 380whp / 410 hub hp and I think that the good old garret 3076 with a .82 trim should suit the bill...

I see that there is one of the specialists on ebay offering a kit for £2050, but bloody hell that's £800 for a few fabbed pipes lines and adaptor.

I'm looking for an externally waste gated option, what do you guys recommend and think the cost will be?

I make it....

Turbo
Oil / water lines
Adaptor block
Downpipe
Waste gate
Actuator tial 38mm (TD £199.99)


Anything else on the shopping list? Where would you recommend getting the parts for the best price?

More than happy to buy secondhand, but must be genuine kit.

Even if there are UK places here that can fab it up that's cool, but wonder how much that is?

Goal here is to make a complete kit up as cheap as possible but don't read cheap as crap

I guess ATS in USA aren't an option atm with the exchange rate and import tax it makes the kit over the UK cost direct.

[Odin_S]

There is no way you'd get 450bhp at 1.5bar on a TD06.... So many variable to consider, i have a GT3076r and have so far got 350bhp at 1.3bar (63AR ) on a Link G4

Once i get my settings sorted i hope to get to my 400bhp goal

For you, I'd only consider a GTX Garrett 3076. There is always the lag trade off, (63AR ) would be adequate for your goals i think but I'm sureothers will say 82 would be better.

Not sure about buying from eBay though

[androo007]

Agreed, I was rather shocked and only expect up to 370hp.

.63 trim could he restricting you perhaps? That's quite low for the size - are you on a side mount or something? The 3076 should get 450 easy.

[mr2magic]

How about the borg warner efr series turbos? 7163 or 7064

[C35Rob]

You've got a whole TD06 kit already haven't you?

Have you considered upgrading the TD06 you already have? There are modern billet Wheels available for the TD06 which should flow enough air to make the power you need

Like this for example

http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/turbo ... l220g.aspx

Alternatively a 25g wheel in your turbo (back plate and compressor housing have to be machined by the turbo rebuilder) will get you where you need to be.

[androo007]

Wow no, rob actually I hadn't thought of that! I guess that's mainly as the lag would be 200-300 rpm slower than a gt series turbo still?

I'm not that bothered like, but a novice in the area so happy to learn

Do you really think upgrading would really help that much?

What would be the difference you'd expect between a gt30 /gtx30 and uprated td06?

Thanks

[C35Rob]

I don't want to give definitive numbers as there are a few variables but yeah, 2,3,400 rpm sounds about right, all dependent on turbine wheel size, housings, tuning etc.

with a billet extended tip/higher blade height wheel in the 20g size you may even see improved spool over current size, dependent on wheel weight, it's hard to get solid flow numbers on some of the aftermarket billet wheels though - but given a back to back picture like that kinugawa one, its plain to see that wheel will move more air than a stock 20g wheel.

your 20g wheel is a 68mm (exducer) and flows 44lb/min , a GT3071 wheel has a 71mm exducer and flows 53(iirc)lb/min "they" reckon on around 9-9.5 hp per lb/min of air so you can see you only really need a compressor that flows a couple of more lbs of air to make the power you want.


a 25g wheel would make your turbo a TD06-25g - which is what Greddy called a "T67" in their kits.. there's no doubt as all that that turbo would make all the power you need, you could even buy a set of cams with the money you saved

Personally.. If i had the choice between ~450bhp from a 25g or a billet 20g @ £600ish for a rebuilt/modified turbo? or the same power with marginally better response for £2000 ish then I'd have an old school turbo and a family holiday

[androo007]

Rob you are bang on the money, thank you so much.

Also the old school turbo rebuilds are SO much cheaper. I'm gonna get looking.... thanks!

Amazingly there isn't a lot of info around wrt uprated ats td06's which is interesting.

Even just getting to 400 without mega boost would be a bonus.

Would you use a kingwunga etc part?

[androo007]

So because i am the ultimate n0000000b which would you opt for?

Uprated compressor wheel vs 25g casing. OR can i do both?

Would you expect spool to up the revs & induce more lag? Im liking this idea alot.....

Cheers

[C35Rob]

So because i am the ultimate n0000000b which would you opt for?

Uprated compressor wheel vs 25g casing. OR can i do both?

Would you expect spool to up the revs & induce more lag? Im liking this idea alot.....

Cheers

you could use either wheel in your current compressor housing, the billet 20g wheel would be a direct fit, i.e same inducer/exducer sizes, the difference being extended tips, higher blade height and a smaller centre hub

you could also use a 25G wheel in your current compressor housing, but both the housing and backplate would need machining by the turbo rebuilder (pretty standard hybrid turbo practice).

you can get a "ready made" tdo6-25g comp housing and 25g wheel from kinugawa..

http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/mitsu ... 500hp.aspx

but I'm not sure if it would work out any cheaper than having your mitsubishi comp housing machined and just buying the wheel - something you'd have to weigh up.


as for if I'd use a Kinugawa wheel.. yeah, sure.. it's a CNC machined part, and it'll be balanced as a rotating assembly as part of the turbo rebuild,

so which would I go for? hmmm... I'd be tempted to try the billet 20g wheel, it'll spool faster than a 25g and should make the power you want, a 25g wheel will absolutely get you 450bhp, a 25g wheel would do 500bhp with the correct hot side, but at the sacrifice of low end but then everything is a trade off.

[androo007]

Rob you're a star. Thanks very much.

I think I'm going to go for the billet wheel option.

First get the car back, mapped and enjoy for what's left of the summer, then get it rebuilt over the winter.... that way I can get some back to back test results.

I see the kinguwanananaga turbos now are getting some smashing feedback, and are even a sub decision of IHI apparently.

Thanks again.....decision made!

[Race Idiot]

Owens also do billet wheels for Mitsu turbos, they did my TD05 a while back. They even said it was possible to convert it to a bb turbo over journal bearing to improve spool.

[androo007]

Interesting, did you notice a good improvement on the 05? Ever measure power increase?

[^Trickster^]

I made 425hp and 323lb ft on a TD06 in 2006 but the torque dropped off big time after peak.
Rev 2 built engine
272/264 cams
Rmr intake manifold
Boot mount cooler
800cc side feed injectors
Power fc
Mapped by thor at the time and it was the last tune they did for me that was flywheel figures on their hub dyno, so not sure how accurate, at 1.6 bar I think.

I previously made 390 and this gave me a 12.44 @ 116mph,full weight with street tyres, not sure how accurate their dyno is but those were the numbers.

Graeme

Edit: That same engine made 470hp on motoscopes dyno tuned by Ryan G on a 3076r and 1000cc injectors

[mr2toby]

I maybe way off here, but could you not re-use all the turbo kit parts ( downpipe, waste gate etc ) and just replace the TD06 with a bigger new turbo?
As long as the footprint, oil & water lines match up. Would this work?