Running problems, at a wits end please help.

[Mav122]

The knock could be caused by it running like xxxx due to the other faults... or the sensor might have blown, or it might not be plugged in?

Sensor defo plugged in. Are these mass type knock sensors or the more refined ones? If it is a mass type I will knock on the block with an extension and multimeter attached to knock sensor/suitable earth to check operation. I havent got an oscilloscope so cant check the other sort. IIRC toyota operate the other sort at approx 7000hz. I know its not completely relevant but interesting none the less.

[bobhatton]

I replaced the coil last week as it had a crack down both sides. I thought that'd be the answer to my problem but no sadly not. didn't know it earthed through bracket. might copper grease the threads up to all coil and bracket bolts to aid earthing in a vauge hope it helps.

And it was a Toyota coil not an aftermarket one I hope for what ever Rev your car is

Sorry a Lucas one . I am running on a very tight budget at the moment. If I could have afforded a toyota one I would have.

Try and get a second hand Toyota one, I have had problems when not using the correct one.

If you have not done it please check your cam timing as per the BGB as it sounds like this may be out

[Mav122]

I put a new cambelt on when Engine was rebuilt and the timing is bang on. dots on cam pulleys line up with marks on backplate and crank mark lines up with 0 degree mark on cam cover.I wound the engine over by hand approx 6-7 times and re-checked and it was still bang on.

Belt was mega tight fit. I had to take tensioner off, put it round pulleys and then re-install tensioner, the pin fell out of tensioner more or less once it was bolted on as pulley was pushing hard against it. I replaced coolant pump and idler pulley as well - Both were exactly the same as the ones that came off the car. I checked the belt by counting the ribs and it is defo the earlier longer belt. was a complete A@£3 to install.

[Mav122]

Here are the wastegate pics taken from under the car.

[toxo]

The problem with some aftermarket downpipes is they stop the flap inside the turbo housing from opening properly (the bit that the actuator arm is attached to). This means the turbo can never clear the excess exhaust gas so they end up all going through the turbine instead and you overboost. I can't tell if that's one of the problems you're experiencing, though.

[Mav122]

When I drove the car home (3/4 way home before it overheated) It boosted smoothly and was progressive, at the moment it is jumpy boost like its on/off/on/off/ with foot on floor. It hesitates badly. It was however overbooting (20psi) on way home. I assumed the guy had the MBC wound up too high. Even if it wastegate didn't open properly why will it not boost till such high rpm then all come at once? Downpipe getting in way of wastegate shouldn't stop it boosting at 2500-4000 rpm should it?

If The wastegate rod got knocked upon installation of turbo back on car maybe wastegate is open then when it does kick in the downpipe makes it overboost... Im going to go grudgingly take my down pipe off and check. Hate that job one bolt is a real pain in the - bleep bleep bleeeeep bleep bleep - to take off.

Think I need to invest in one of those tools you pump by hand to create vacuum or pressure in pipes to check them. Would be massively usefull right now to check wastegate operation. Almost bought one off snapon a month ago as well but thought noooo when would I use that, grr.

[bobhatton]

I put a new cambelt on when Engine was rebuilt and the timing is bang on. dots on cam pulleys line up with marks on backplate and crank mark lines up with 0 degree mark on cam cover.I wound the engine over by hand approx 6-7 times and re-checked and it was still bang on.

Belt was mega tight fit. I had to take tensioner off, put it round pulleys and then re-install tensioner, the pin fell out of tensioner more or less once it was bolted on as pulley was pushing hard against it. I replaced coolant pump and idler pulley as well - Both were exactly the same as the ones that came off the car. I checked the belt by counting the ribs and it is defo the earlier longer belt. was a complete A@£3 to install.

I would check the cams again but use the marks inside the cam cover and first bearing cap, that the right way to do it

[2mad]

When I drove the car home (3/4 way home before it overheated) It boosted smoothly and was progressive, at the moment it is jumpy boost like its on/off/on/off/ with foot on floor. It hesitates badly. It was however overbooting (20psi) on way home. I assumed the guy had the MBC wound up too high. Even if it wastegate didn't open properly why will it not boost till such high rpm then all come at once? Downpipe getting in way of wastegate shouldn't stop it boosting at 2500-4000 rpm should it?

If The wastegate rod got knocked upon installation of turbo back on car maybe wastegate is open then when it does kick in the downpipe makes it overboost... Im going to go grudgingly take my down pipe off and check. Hate that job one bolt is a real pain in the - bleep bleep bleeeeep bleep bleep - to take off.

Think I need to invest in one of those tools you pump by hand to create vacuum or pressure in pipes to check them. Would be massively usefull right now to check wastegate operation. Almost bought one off snapon a month ago as well but thought noooo when would I use that, grr.

Do you have a foot pump?
If you do you can test the actuator/wastegate like in this vid..

http://s948.photobucket.com/albums/ad32 ... e_test.mp4


Kev.

[Mav122]

Oh I like the foot pump idea, I've just taken downpipe off so will do that later tonight since I can see all of regulator.

I originally timed belt up to the marks on bearing caps then had to take belt off as water pump was leaking (had used blue silicone sealant) have now put toyota pump gasket on and timed it up to plate marks. Will remove rocker cover and double check.

In this pic wastegate is definatley closed, you can see clearance is minimal between downpipe and wastegate. Anyone know of toyosport downpipe issues?


Ignore the light patch top left of exhaust thats where i touched it. I can't see any marks that would suggest wastegate valve touching downpipe. Would it be an idea to get a dremmel with stone attached to downpipe and grind a couple of mm off where valve is?


A better pic of closed wastegate. looks ok.


Thanks for feedback so far by the way everyone. I'm always grateful for the good and prompt feedback on here and frankly this succession of problems is doing my noodle in so I need all the help I can get.

[2mad]

Just had a proper read through your posts. I had simuair idling/stalling issues before I fitted my hks vpc (afm delete).
For me the problem was the afm. I had to run the car with the afm screw all the way in or it would tick over at 300/400rpm or just stall .

Other times my car acted like this it was a vacuum leak or air leak between the afm and turbo. also check for a leak between the idle control valve and afm. basicly look for anywhere unmetered air could be getting in.

Best of luck,

Kev.

[Mav122]

Just had a proper read through your posts. I had simuair idling/stalling issues before I fitted my hks vpc (afm delete).
For me the problem was the afm. I had to run the car with the afm screw all the way in or it would tick over at 300/400rpm or just stall .

Other times my car acted like this it was a vacuum leak or air leak between the afm and turbo. also check for a leak between the idle control valve and afm. basicly look for anywhere unmetered air could be getting in.

Best of
Kev.

I have sussed idle issue it was a bad ground othe coil. It just overboosts and is juddery on boost when it eventually kicks in. Did you have those issues with boost as well on yours?

I have just checked wastegate operation with footpump and it works spot on. It starts opening at 7ish p.s.i and is fully open at 12 ish p.s.i. bearing in mind its a cheap halfords pump so I doubt gauge was spot on but that seems ok to me. With the valve fully open it looks like there is a chance of it catching downpipe. I'll get vernier caliper out later and measure downpipe/turbo gap between valve and then measure how far valve opens.

[bobhatton]

Oh I like the foot pump idea, I've just taken downpipe off so will do that later tonight since I can see all of regulator.

I originally timed belt up to the marks on bearing caps then had to take belt off as water pump was leaking (had used blue silicone sealant) have now put toyota pump gasket on and timed it up to plate marks. Will remove rocker cover and double check.

In this pic wastegate is definatley closed, you can see clearance is minimal between downpipe and wastegate. Anyone know of toyosport downpipe issues?
Image Replaced With URL For Quote http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/garage.php ... e_id=19418

Ignore the light patch top left of exhaust thats where i touched it. I can't see any marks that would suggest wastegate valve touching downpipe. Would it be an idea to get a dremmel with stone attached to downpipe and grind a couple of mm off where valve is?
Image Replaced With URL For Quote http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/garage.php ... e_id=19419

A better pic of closed wastegate. looks ok.
Image Replaced With URL For Quote http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/garage.php ... e_id=19420

Thanks for feedback so far by the way everyone. I'm always grateful for the good and prompt feedback on here and frankly this succession of problems is doing my noodle in so I need all the help I can get.

At the right had side at the top of your down pipe photo you can see where the metal is in past the gasket, cut it back to the gasket line

[Mav122]

At the right had side at the top of your down pipe photo you can see where the metal is in past the gasket, cut it back to the gasket line

I did wonder about that bit as I noticed after I posted that the metal looks like it has caught something there. Ill take it to work tomorrow so I can attack it with my small airgrinder. fingers crossed that is at least part of the problem, doesn't explain the lack of boost low down though. erratic over 14 -16psi I thought could be down to how lean the fuel mix would be but other than that the car still drives like poo whenever it is on boost, when it eventually decides to boost. I can physically hear the turbo spooling but nothing comes in until late revs. what could cause this? Could the re-circ valve be partially open... never heard of it happening but would explain problem if wastegate ok. I will sort this downpipe out, re-assemble tomorrow night, delete codes and re-roadtest. any thoughts meantime on the problem of lack of boost pre 4000rpm, and the juddering I would appreciate .

[Mav122]

I checked re-circ valve and it is ok. closed as it is supposed to be and I can move it with my finger so i'll file that as ok... Any ideas as to fault?

[bobhatton]

If the waste gate was jammed say half way open the boost would come in late and then overboost, when the rev went up

[Mav122]

If the waste gate was jammed say half way open the boost would come in late and then overboost, when the rev went up

Hadn't thought of that... could kill two problems with one stone .

Measured clearance and the wastegate needs 22mm to open fully and the downpipe in the shallow bit caters for 13.5mm... 8.5mm to find then. I have taken the downpipe to work. I sub-contract myself daily at the moment to one of the largest vehicle refurb centres in the UK and have given it to a panel beater. He is going to cut the shallow bit round its current weld, bend it up and fill the gap with weld and then gring excess off including the bit overhanging the gasket. Should give enough clearence then. only prob is we are waiting on a new argon bottle for welder . was hoping to throw it back on tonight.

[Mav122]

Ok update time. There is now a few mm clearance for the wastegate in the downpipe. I have put pipe back on and checked wastegate by applying air pressure to actuator and it goes through its full stroke of movement as it should.

I took car out for test drive with high hopes and boost still won't come in until 4000ish rpm and then 20psi hits again. The car had engine codes come up again but they wouldn't effect overboost on a mechanical actuator. It must be actuator, wastegate or supplied pressure from turbo fault. I had MBC on so will take that off and retest tomorrow to check MBC isn't at fault.

I also have yet to take rockercover off and check cambelt timing as per marks on camshaft caps as suggested. I will also do that tomorrow. Cam timing would effect sluggishnes in low revs but it wouldn't be responsible for overboost would it? I can't see how it would anyhow.

Engine codes were same as before I modified downpipe.

52 -Knock sensor.

24 - Open or short circuit in air temp sensor.

31 - AFM. Open circuit in the VC signal or short circuit between VS and E2 when idle contacts closed.

Suggestions anyone?

[Mav122]

Finally sorted problem I think. I took the MBC off and just put hose into actuator from turbo. I also... re-calibrated actuator (24inch minor adjustment bar and leverage). Drove car and boost comes in smoothly and maxes at approx 10psi now, phew. Engine light came on and car wouldnt boost again low down but stopped, turned it off for five and re-started and it was ok with no light again. The engine code was for the knock sensor and speed signal. I will replace knock sensor as it keeps rearing it head as a problem and duff speedo drive in box im aware of. Damn stupid rev1 cable speedo system, those drives are soooo hard to come by.

MBC problem was the ball getting stuck in the actuator port thus allowing air through the small hole in the side of the MBC body instead of activating wastegate. I forgot to draw the small hole below but it is opposite the actuator port that the ball was stuck in. New MBC me thinks.