Stuck in France - need advice

[Booster]

Hi
The local french garage reckons the head gasket has gone. Just so that I don't get completely fleeced can someone please let me know how much it would normally cost (roughly) to fix this as the RAC are insisting that it should be repaired rather than repatriated.
Cheers
Brian

[LimeyMk1]

From a quick forum search it's looking like approx £400 for a MK1.

Good luck with the repairs.

[oukie]

Where in France are you ? I ask cause my parents live in France and my Dad has a mk1, He might be able to point you to a good garage if close enough.

Chris.

[Booster]

Hey thanks to all for taking the time to help us out. We are in Reims - the car is somewhere near Troyes.

[pk_090]

Depends on how much work you want put into it i am afraid Brian. Ive just spend £1500 on an engine rebuild, so i would make sure it is the HG first. Things to check would be the oil, if it looks like you have mayonnaise on the filler cap (quite a lot, not just a little bit), this can be an indicator, and mayonnaise could also be visible on the dipstick. Failing that a compression test would also give indications. A figure of about 175 psi plus i think i read was a good figure. If you are getting 3 decent figures and one figure severely lower that COULD also be HG trouble. Also signs of oil in the header tank and cooling system, and funny smelling coolant could also be HG issues.
Any more info on what happened to the car?
When my HG went, i disappeared in a cloud of white smoke, and the cooling system was near enough empty.
Alex

[elbon50]

Its usually No 4 cylinder when the HG goes Brian

Low compression on that one could give a clue

Yes a description of the ssymptoms would aid diagnosis

Peter

[Booster]

It's quite a long story. I had the engine rebuilt 4 years ago as part of a restoration project. It was driven for 1000 miles and then put in a specialist car storage unit, where they run it up and move it around every month. The RAC man at the 1s breakdown removed the stat as there was a marked temperature difference between the inlet and outlets. When he removed it we were all pretty shocked to see that the thermostat seal had been repaired with silicon sealant instead of being replaced! Picture attached shows the stat seal and sealant.

He replaced it for us with a new one and we were on our again only to break down again with overheating after about 50 miles or so. The guys at a local garage reckoned it was only an airlock and bled the system for us so off we went again to the ferry. Got as far as Lille before it overheated again. This time I removed the stat completely as there was still a temperature gradient between the inlet and outlets and at the front radiator. I suspected a blockage too so bought some cleaner and flushed as much as I could but it ran clear. There was no obvious signs of HG issues - the oil was perfectly clear, in the cap and on the dipstick. No funny smells either. Anyway we got another 20miles and it went again. we bypassed the fan stat as a last desperate measure before finally giving and calling for the recovery service.


so here we are in reims still waiting for the garages verdict as to whether t is repairable or not and that decision will not be until tomorrow 11:00 at the earliest.

[PW@Woodsport]

You won't see a noticeable compression drop on testing if the HG is gone, Mr2's don't fail like Fords and Vauxhalls do, they get a fine break between number 4 and the water jacket, usually because the block is corroded in that area.

This means that a repair is unlikely to get you very far, in most cases it will fail straight away, only a block decking will rescue the engine, otherwise no amount of new gaskets will fix it.

The only way to determine if that is the case is to remove the head and examine the block surface, but they are extremely prone to this type of failure, i'd be amazed if it didn't have block corrosion.

Next question is, if it has got a corroded block surface, why didn't they address this during the recon?

[ian08]

Sorry to hear about your engine woes...
if the block needs decking and the engine taking out to do this then surely they will have to recover the car back to the UK for you? If the block has damage, as Paul says, even if they do a temporary repair to the block with chemical metal and fit a new head gasket, the job will need doing properly again at some point so you might as well get it done right in the first place....... assuming you intend to keep the car.
Easier and cheaper to get it done back home though...... or source a good second hand engine.

[Charged]

surely they will have to recover the car back to the UK for you?

I imagine the issue is going to be, is that going to be cost effective for the break down company? ie are they paying more than the car is 'worth' bringing it back?

[toxo]

Yeah there is a process for determining whether repatriation will occur which is very similar to the 'write-off' process, i.e. how much is the car worth vs the cost of getting it back into the UK.

If you're still stuck (I appreciate the thread was started yesterday), you could do worse than PMing user JHiss. He is the chairman of the French MR2 club, might be a useful contact.

[ian08]

surely they will have to recover the car back to the UK for you?

I imagine the issue is going to be, is that going to be cost effective for the break down company? ie are they paying more than the car is 'worth' bringing it back?

I suppose it depends on their terms and conditions and liability in the event of a breakdown overseas. You can bet that it'll be weighted in their favour though.... I doubt if it'll cover accomodation, meals etc whilst a repairer drops an engine out, repairs it and puts it all back together again.
If the terms of the contract state that they will always re-patriate a vehicle, then they should do it regardless of a cars value or projected cost of repairs.... interesting to find out what the small print says about this... I bet many people travel overseas and never even think about it.... I doubt if I would have done.

[toxo]

surely they will have to recover the car back to the UK for you?

I imagine the issue is going to be, is that going to be cost effective for the break down company? ie are they paying more than the car is 'worth' bringing it back?

I suppose it depends on their terms and conditions and liability in the event of a breakdown overseas. You can bet that it'll be weighted in their favour though.... I doubt if it'll cover accomodation, meals etc whilst a repairer drops an engine out, repairs it and puts it all back together again.
If the terms of the contract state that they will always re-patriate a vehicle, then they should do it regardless of a cars value or projected cost of repairs.... interesting to find out what the small print says about this... I bet many people travel overseas and never even think about it.... I doubt if I would have done.

I didn't until my MR2 blew up in Belgium... I have a totally different view of international breakdown recovery now.

[Booster]

We are still stuck in france - awaiting the verdict from the local garage as to a)whether it can be repaired in good time (i.e. before the 10th August - our return date)
b) What exactly is wrong with it and therefore how much it will cost.

I will PM JHiss that's a useful contact - thanks.

My biggest concern is that the company who originally reconditioned the engine will tell me to go away as it has been so long since the job was done. Despite the fact that the car has only done 1000 miles since the recon in 2008. I want them to make good the job they did in the first place. Just the fact that rubber sealant was found holding the thermostat in place is enough to show that the job was not done professionally or properly. And I paid a lot of money for that job to be done.

I have no idea what will happen today or where we will be at the end of it but I really really really want to go home now.

[ian08]

good luck... here's hoping they come back with some good news for you

[elbon50]

Are they removing the cylinder head Booster ?

A member who had block corrosion made a temporary job with plastic metal and a new HG

It kept him going for quite a lot of miles, until he replaced the engine

Might be a way of getting the car home, even though it would be a waste of materials & labour cost

Peter

[tonigmr2]

Trouble is 2008 is a long time ago, 4 years is enough time for corrosion to occur isn't it? No company would guarantee an engine after that length of time. (Though I take the point on silicone sealant!)

[elbon50]

4 years is enough time for corrosion to occur isn't it? No company would guarantee an engine after that length of time

With modern corrosion inhibitors & only 1K of use corrosion shouldn't have occurred in that time I think Toni

You can bet that the company will want to use the time argument though

Poor Booster must have set off for France confident in having an expensively reconditioned engine

[PW@Woodsport]

On the corrosion issue, i started seeing it from about 97 onwards, before then i can't recall seeing a Mk1 with it, so it would appear it takes around 10 years for any sort of corrosion to set in. With a freshly decked block (should be done on any engine recon as a given) i would be very surprised to find any block corrosion after 4 years, it would need to have zero antifreeze for a start.

When the head comes off you will be able to see if the block has been decked or not, if it has the "grand canyon" around number 4 cylinder then you know it hasn't.

[SuperRedMR2]

Are they removing the cylinder head Booster ?

A member who had block corrosion made a temporary job with plastic metal and a new HG

It kept him going for quite a lot of miles, until he replaced the engine

Might be a way of getting the car home, even though it would be a waste of materials & labour cost

Peter

This was me and I didn't use some pathetic plastic metal bonding, I used Titanium Putty and I used it for 4000 miles before changing it due to paranoia. It probably would have lasted another 10k to be honest.

It is still a time consuming job though however Peter as you have to give it a good day to fully set and the stuff I used had to be at the right temperature, but obviously quicker than stripping the block and getting it decked.

No disrespect to Rogue who built my engine which lasted 40k miles, they didn't deck the block, but I cannot fault them as it was only meant to last 1 track day season, what's that....500 miles?

If you can get it home, take it apart and do it yourself, that way you know its been done properly