[Mk2] [Generic] 1ZZ-FE (Coil-on-Plug) Conversion

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Rosssco
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:41 pm
Location: Aberdeen

[Mk2] [Generic] 1ZZ-FE (Coil-on-Plug) Conversion

Post by Rosssco »

Well, I 'd done a bit of research into what was required to get rid of the distributer on the 3S engine, and run one coil per cylinder 'direct' igntion. This was in part because I wanted to change the igniton components (leads / cap / rotor and maybe ignitor) on a newly purchased Rev 2 Turbo, then I discovered that the aftermarket ECU the car came with (Link G3) has the capabilty to run individual COP's without any additional hardware (coil type dependant!).

1ZZ-FE coils are readily available (from MR2 mk3's, celica's, corolla's, Avensis' (Avensii?)) and have the coil and ignitor complete as a single unit, therefore no requirements to mount a remote ignitor unit, and they fit well within the stock 3S head. There is a bit of lateral movement (wobble), but use of the grommet fitted on the original plug wires makes them a snug fit! Height wise the 1ZZ's are spot on.

Current Link G3 wiring I'll need to figure out:

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Coils in initial position

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Installed the celica side of the wiring harness for effect:

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Problem is, I'm using a GT4 chargecooler, which severly restricts space here. The cooler core does fit back on, but effectively sits onto of a couple of the coils, I'd really want a small gap, if nothing to avoid vibration and / or friction between the two.

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Although I was ideally hoping to have all coils in alighment to given the conversion a more factory feel, its not required from an operation point, so after various trials with the cooler core, I think this gives me the most clearance, although I'll need to use a larger rubber hose section from the turbo to cooler inlet, the aim being to lift that front side of the cooler , which although won't give a large gap, should provide just enough space to prevent actual contact.

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This is the mis-alignent with the turbo outlet and the cooler core, which I've heard is due to the slightly different positions of the Rev 2 vs. Rev 3 manifolds (mine is a Rev 2). Might look at getting the cooler inlet cut and rotated to give a better match, although it was working fine before..

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Proposed orientations

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Wiring stuff :icon_confused:

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In relation to wiring, I think the biggest thing for me will be correctly connecting the igntion triggers to the ECU, and getting this right, as I'm currently not sure if sufficient spare outputs are available for the four individual coils, meaning I might have to re-pin some other fucntions or delete those I'm not likely to use anyway (A/C idel up for example.). For the +12v and ground feeds, I'm just going to use those used for the original ignitor

Ignitor feed is the wires going to the smaller plug here:

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Any comments or assistance gratefully recieved..

Ross
pbmr2
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Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: [Mk2] [Generic] 1ZZ-FE (Coil-on-Plug) Conversion

Post by pbmr2 »

if you've got the wire diagrams for the celica loom and the Link G3 i can draw up a wire diagram for a final install if you like.

your on the right path with rotating the CC intake pipe, seems like the simplest solution.
i see no real problem with what your doing at all!

what are you doing about the hole left by removing the distributer?
Rosssco
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:41 pm
Location: Aberdeen

Re: [Mk2] [Generic] 1ZZ-FE (Coil-on-Plug) Conversion

Post by Rosssco »

Thanks for the offer PB :) The celica side of the wiring is actually straight forward - only need to connect a 12v live, earth and a trigger to each coil. All four coils will use common 12v and earth wires. The trigger wiring to the ECU is the only one's I'm not sure about right now. If you have any info on that it would be gratefully recieved :thumleft: I've got the pinout diagram from the 2barTuning website (was fitted by Ryan) and additional info from the Link website itself. The issue I'm having is identifying which I/O ports have been used for what on the ECU (all or most are assignable to different functions), and hopefully there's 3 spare ports to run another 3 coils...

I'm going to dig around a little, as I would have thought that if I connect to the ECU using the PC Link software, it should be able to tell me whats in use and whats not..? :-k

I've got an old dizzy cap which I'm going to use. I'll remove the rotor so there's no contact, and silicone up the rotor plug holes to prevent corrosion. It wont look pretty, but should function fine.
mr2c8cya
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Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:21 pm

Re: [Mk2] [Generic] 1ZZ-FE (Coil-on-Plug) Conversion

Post by mr2c8cya »

wont you need a crank or cam signal?
Rosssco
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:41 pm
Location: Aberdeen

Re: [Mk2] [Generic] 1ZZ-FE (Coil-on-Plug) Conversion

Post by Rosssco »

mr2c8cya wrote:wont you need a crank or cam signal?


Indeed, and part of the reason why I'm keeping the guts of the standard dizzy in place, as this sends both crank and cam to the ECU.

An improved (more accurate basically) version would use a trigger wheel for the crank angle sensor mounted directly onto the crank pulley, with appropriate VR-sensor, but that would involve removal of the crank pulley for modification, and mounting of the sensor, which I'm not too fussed about at this stage.
mr2c8cya
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Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:21 pm

Re: [Mk2] [Generic] 1ZZ-FE (Coil-on-Plug) Conversion

Post by mr2c8cya »

yes i have link g4 and am in the process of putting cop's on mine you can get bolt on kits from america for a crank signal
Rosssco
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Location: Aberdeen

Re: [Mk2] [Generic] 1ZZ-FE (Coil-on-Plug) Conversion

Post by Rosssco »

Oh right, interesting... I'm not too bothered with that route at this stage, but would be good to know this particular kit :thumleft:

Ross
mr2c8cya
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Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:21 pm

Re: [Mk2] [Generic] 1ZZ-FE (Coil-on-Plug) Conversion

Post by mr2c8cya »

they are on ebay.com type in toyota mr2 trigger wheel kit its all bolt on
Rosssco
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Location: Aberdeen

Re: [Mk2] [Generic] 1ZZ-FE (Coil-on-Plug) Conversion

Post by Rosssco »

Seems like a decent bit of kit! But my 4x coils and wiring only cost me £60, and in theory shouldn't cost me anymore (although I'll probably break something..) :mrgreen:

I'll definately keep it in mind though.
pbmr2
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Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: [Mk2] [Generic] 1ZZ-FE (Coil-on-Plug) Conversion

Post by pbmr2 »

your gonna need to get the ecu on a computer and find out how it's using it's outputs to know what you can drop and what you need.

i'll DL the manual for some light reading this evening and report back tomorrow.

if i was doing it, i'd be using the crank sensor upgrade and losing the dizzy. less rotational drag, less weight, more room and a single signal wire. it'll work both ways but would look more like a factory install without a redundant dizzy still there.
RyanRs
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Re: [Mk2] [Generic] 1ZZ-FE (Coil-on-Plug) Conversion

Post by RyanRs »

Rosssco wrote:Seems like a decent bit of kit! But my 4x coils and wiring only cost me £60, and in theory shouldn't cost me anymore (although I'll probably break something..) :mrgreen:

I'll definately keep it in mind though.


Haaahaa! You think you got a good deal!! Got my COPs off ebay, won the auction at £21 and £5 p&P !! \:D/ Then i discovered that toyota want around £60 for the connectors and pins :shock: so i popped to my local breakers and there was loads! they let me cut them off and have em for £2 :D

I have concerns about that crank wheel and sensor on ebay as the pic was taken from Turbomr2.com in the rebuild guide. Why didn't they take there own picture?!
mr2c8cya
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Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:21 pm

Re: [Mk2] [Generic] 1ZZ-FE (Coil-on-Plug) Conversion

Post by mr2c8cya »

RyanRs wrote:

I have concerns about that crank wheel and sensor on ebay as the pic was taken from Turbomr2.com in the rebuild guide. Why didn't they take there own picture?!

i noticed that i have the kit and it seems good enough quality only thing that could let it down is if you got some mud between some of the teeth of the wheel
RST
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Location: Inverness, Scotland

Re: [Mk2] [Generic] 1ZZ-FE (Coil-on-Plug) Conversion

Post by RST »

Only to say if you're dynoing and having the G3 re-mapped then I'd be interesting to know where you go. I've been looking for ages for someone to have a look at my G3 XLEM and haven't found anywhere here which knows about Links yet.

If you're dab handy with them anyway I'd really appreciate a scan of mine on the diagnostics setting sometime. Not very keen on doing it myself -know what I'm like with computers and more likely to knacker something on an ECU.
Rosssco
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Location: Aberdeen

Re: [Mk2] [Generic] 1ZZ-FE (Coil-on-Plug) Conversion

Post by Rosssco »

RST wrote:Only to say if you're dynoing and having the G3 re-mapped then I'd be interesting to know where you go. I've been looking for ages for someone to have a look at my G3 XLEM and haven't found anywhere here which knows about Links yet.

If you're dab handy with them anyway I'd really appreciate a scan of mine on the diagnostics setting sometime. Not very keen on doing it myself -know what I'm like with computers and more likely to knacker something on an ECU.


RST, I contacted Wallace Performance in Altens (you've probably heard of them?). I was initially worried, because they developed a bit of a bad rep while based over in Bridge of Don near my work, but I think they got 'new management' a couple of years ago, and are pretty well regarded, certainly with some of the local Pistonheads members.

I sent them an enquiry to see what they could do, and they did say they had experience with both the 3S-GTE and Link ECU's. I'll be speaking them in the near future when I get this igntion business sorted..

I'm not in anyway proficient with electrical things, but I could probably find my way about the software with a bit of practice :?

You used anyone else north of, eh, Dundee..? :lol:

Ross
Rosssco
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:41 pm
Location: Aberdeen

Re: [Mk2] [Generic] 1ZZ-FE (Coil-on-Plug) Conversion

Post by Rosssco »

pbmr2 wrote:your gonna need to get the ecu on a computer and find out how it's using it's outputs to know what you can drop and what you need.

i'll DL the manual for some light reading this evening and report back tomorrow.

if i was doing it, i'd be using the crank sensor upgrade and losing the dizzy. less rotational drag, less weight, more room and a single signal wire. it'll work both ways but would look more like a factory install without a redundant dizzy still there.


PB, yeah, I'll need to plug it back into the car methinks and hook up the PCLink software and try identify outputs. I was in contact with Ryan @2Bartuning last week (he installed it) and he was helpful, but didnt reply back since as I guess he's a busy man.

To me the only real advantage of an independant crank sensor is accuracy (assuming it doesn't get dirty, then you'll have problems), but as I'll be losing the rotor on the dizzy, it will have minimal drag to unmeasurable, the dizzy cap will prob weight less than the trigger wheel! Were talking grams here though :D Would have preferred to get rid of the dizzy cap from an aesthetic POV, but I'm not an engine tarter upper, as long as it functions ok..

Did you get anywhere with you manual research? Should starting having a good read myself!

Ross
mr2c8cya
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Re: [Mk2] [Generic] 1ZZ-FE (Coil-on-Plug) Conversion

Post by mr2c8cya »

russ from wallace peformance maps my car its running link management he is very good at his job
Rosssco
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Location: Aberdeen

Re: [Mk2] [Generic] 1ZZ-FE (Coil-on-Plug) Conversion

Post by Rosssco »

mr2c8cya wrote:russ from wallace peformance maps my car its running link management he is very good at his job


Where you based mate? Maybe its your car they have experience with?! :mrgreen: Thats good to hear. Nothing like a recommendation from a fellow member. There prices seemed fair, and the chap I was dealing with knew his stuff. I'm just cautious as I've never used anybody before to map a car of mine..
mr2c8cya
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Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:21 pm

Re: [Mk2] [Generic] 1ZZ-FE (Coil-on-Plug) Conversion

Post by mr2c8cya »

i stay in a village between perth and dundee, my car never misses a beat so must have done a decent map on it, last i heard russ is now permantly based at peformance hq down at dalgety bay in fife altough he may still do the mapping for wallace peformance
RST
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Re: [Mk2] [Generic] 1ZZ-FE (Coil-on-Plug) Conversion

Post by RST »

Hmm, Wallace weren't at all convincing when I asked tham about links. There is (or was) a place in Fife known for a certain piggyback ECU but having been in there -never again!

I've tried to book Wallace a few times this past year-but they're always booked to far ahead or not interested. That and I wasn't impressed at the state of their car park when I went in last autumn -the Aristo was practically left beeched up on the sills going in there. My MR2 wouldn't even make it onto the premises! They need to repair the tarmack before I can drive a car in there again.

The other guy I spoke to recently on a recce was the guy who runs Clarke Motorsport out in Kintore. Not a mapper unfortunately.

Did the guys out in Ellon go bust a while back? Maybe I need to try Wallace again -maybe not managed to speak to the right person before.
mr2c8cya
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Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:21 pm

Re: [Mk2] [Generic] 1ZZ-FE (Coil-on-Plug) Conversion

Post by mr2c8cya »

the place in fife known for there piggyback ecu's are now peformance hq
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