I know, I know, age old question, but as my costs are spiralling out of control, I need to find places to reduce them.
I had decided in my mind that I was going to buy Tein Control Master Type Flex Coilovers (£1150), mainly due to the name, and the suggestion that unlike some of the other 'big' brands (Cusco), the Tein's can be rebuilt in the UK.
I then noticed that Craig is using XYZ coilovers which retail at about helf the cost of the Teins, and that got me wondering, what is the difference?
Can people help me out? What are the options? I've heard bad things about BC coilovers, and can't think of any others?
The car is a road legal track car.
[Mk2] [Turbo] Sorry - but which Coilovers??
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Sorry - but which Coilovers??
Give Ohlins a call, they will rebuild/refurb any coilovers for around £90 per corner plus parts...they will also give you very good impartial advice...you'll have to google the number cos I can't find the link.
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Sorry - but which Coilovers??
Jap, European, and American brands too, such as Tein, HKS, Cusco Ohlins, Koni, KW, Bilstein, Penske, Dynamics/Multimatic, Sachs, JRZ, GAZ, etc all utilise Jap/European/American design, development and manufacture. the quality is high, sometimes so are there prices.
D2, KSport, Megan, F2, G4, HSD, BC Racing, XYZ etc are all designed, "developed" (i say it in inverted commas because there isnt any car-specific testing and development, which is why the damping imo is so poor) and manufactured in Taiwan and China. the problems arent a function of poor manufacturing standards, they are a function of the people designing them having no idea what damping a car requires for good performance needed for that percific aplication, comfort and durability, and genrally targeting profits over quality. the top Jap European and American brands have a long history in dampers, As they have been exstensivly developed in race aplication on each percific car they were intended for, that is the difference in quality and performance.
The easiest way i could summarise it is to say that a UK company could make a television, and a Taiwanese company could make one that was just as good. but if a Taiwanese company tried to build a Formula 1 car the same as the Brawn GP from this season they would fail, miserably. the reason being that there is decades of knowledge and experience behind the success of an F1 team, and the same applies to the components on the car (e.g. dampers in this case). you cant just manufacture something based on simple ideas and visual appearance and expect it to perform the same as the products from companies that have been doing it for decades at the highest levels of motorsport (which is where pretty much ALL of the major development occurs). what kind of serious motorsport does Taiwan etc have none atall.
Trust me dude if its a track car you really do get what you pay for . hope this helps
D2, KSport, Megan, F2, G4, HSD, BC Racing, XYZ etc are all designed, "developed" (i say it in inverted commas because there isnt any car-specific testing and development, which is why the damping imo is so poor) and manufactured in Taiwan and China. the problems arent a function of poor manufacturing standards, they are a function of the people designing them having no idea what damping a car requires for good performance needed for that percific aplication, comfort and durability, and genrally targeting profits over quality. the top Jap European and American brands have a long history in dampers, As they have been exstensivly developed in race aplication on each percific car they were intended for, that is the difference in quality and performance.
The easiest way i could summarise it is to say that a UK company could make a television, and a Taiwanese company could make one that was just as good. but if a Taiwanese company tried to build a Formula 1 car the same as the Brawn GP from this season they would fail, miserably. the reason being that there is decades of knowledge and experience behind the success of an F1 team, and the same applies to the components on the car (e.g. dampers in this case). you cant just manufacture something based on simple ideas and visual appearance and expect it to perform the same as the products from companies that have been doing it for decades at the highest levels of motorsport (which is where pretty much ALL of the major development occurs). what kind of serious motorsport does Taiwan etc have none atall.
Trust me dude if its a track car you really do get what you pay for . hope this helps
stock isnt that soup or something.....?
tic tac 500bhp build thread
http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic. ... 57#1182357
tic tac 500bhp build thread
http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic. ... 57#1182357
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Sorry - but which Coilovers??
Both good advice, cheers. I really wish I'd done a full budget before I started my project, now I am looking at another 3-4k to finish......
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Sorry - but which Coilovers??
There is a saying, Buy cheap buy twice...
In all honesty if you go for a cheap option now you'll probably end up in 12-18mths changing for the expensive option.
You may get lucky and find that the budget brands suit your driving style and be perfectly happy. Only you can tell if you want to take the chance.
Why not have a look at some of the good quality units 2nd hand. My entire track car build has been so far with 2nd hand bits. All of them perfectly good just not box fresh.
In all honesty if you go for a cheap option now you'll probably end up in 12-18mths changing for the expensive option.
You may get lucky and find that the budget brands suit your driving style and be perfectly happy. Only you can tell if you want to take the chance.
Why not have a look at some of the good quality units 2nd hand. My entire track car build has been so far with 2nd hand bits. All of them perfectly good just not box fresh.
96 Rev 3 Turbo, Done!
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Sorry - but which Coilovers??
What are the bad things you've heard about BC coilovers ?
And is that Buddy Club or BC Racing ?
If I had the money I'd use KW or Ohlins.
And is that Buddy Club or BC Racing ?
If I had the money I'd use KW or Ohlins.
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Sorry - but which Coilovers??
I've got a set of Tein Flex (not mono flex) going on my car next week during my day off.
As someone said, buy cheap buy twice. However Tein have just started remaking the normal flex coilovers as lots of people rated them better for the 2 than the mono flex.
Good luck with your searching and there's nothing wrong with getting second hand ones, they can be rebuilt in the uk and they're proven to work well.
Think Luize has some up for grabs, but they might be gone by now.
As someone said, buy cheap buy twice. However Tein have just started remaking the normal flex coilovers as lots of people rated them better for the 2 than the mono flex.
Good luck with your searching and there's nothing wrong with getting second hand ones, they can be rebuilt in the uk and they're proven to work well.
Think Luize has some up for grabs, but they might be gone by now.
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Sorry - but which Coilovers??
yer what bad things have you heard about bc, was looking at buying some i was under the understanding that they are well respected on here. or have i got it all wrong and tein is the way to go?
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Sorry - but which Coilovers??
I bought and fitted BC Racing coilovers to my car. My only complaint is that currently I don't think the springs are matched to the state of our roads. I think for the money, they are very good value.
(still due at WIM to have a full geo, and suspension tweaks).
As I mentioned, if, at the time I could have spent twice as much, KW's are most likely what I'd get on the car.
I'd just like to see some proof of poor quality or whatever is wrong with them.
(still due at WIM to have a full geo, and suspension tweaks).
As I mentioned, if, at the time I could have spent twice as much, KW's are most likely what I'd get on the car.
I'd just like to see some proof of poor quality or whatever is wrong with them.
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Sorry - but which Coilovers??
??
I've not heard horror stories, just that the design isn't particularly tailored, similar to like what Gav said.
I might be wrong, but also, don't want to spend money on something that isn't going to be a decent investment.
I've not heard horror stories, just that the design isn't particularly tailored, similar to like what Gav said.
I might be wrong, but also, don't want to spend money on something that isn't going to be a decent investment.
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Sorry - but which Coilovers??
I've been running Buddy clubs for a few years and i've got to say they were quite good while they lasted.....which wasn't long. In all due respect these are a more track biased coilover and regular road use(probably 98% of the use on my car) has eventually killed em. There still on the car but creak bang and knock like crazy plus with been an inverted damper design the adjuster is on the underside of the struts which are now seized solid.
Oh and Buddy club U.K or there distributor wanted nothing to do with me when i enquired about a new adjuster for the damping because they weren't bought from them. Was told my only option was to buy a new damper from them . Yeh right O.
Oh and Buddy club U.K or there distributor wanted nothing to do with me when i enquired about a new adjuster for the damping because they weren't bought from them. Was told my only option was to buy a new damper from them . Yeh right O.
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Sorry - but which Coilovers??
the H&R's (Bilstein) coilovers i currently have on my 2 are much better for the road than my previous Tein's and C-One's.
Almost standard ride quality
Almost standard ride quality
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Sorry - but which Coilovers??
I'm after the best for the track really. Still considering options....
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Sorry - but which Coilovers??
Shmed wrote:I'm after the best for the track really. Still considering options....
When people say best, they don't tend to actually mean that because I'm pretty sure you don't want to be spending £3k + do you ?
Not only will the units be pricey but having a professional set them up, and having settings for the tracks you visit is going to ramp up as well.
What is your budget ?
And work to that.
Worth chatting to Rogue Systems I'd imagine.
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Sorry - but which Coilovers??
Obviously I don't want the best that is available for the track, as no, I don't fancy spending £3k on them especially when Im not competing in any major events. Having said that, perhaps I should rephrase the comment; I don't want suspension that is 'like stock' as the car will spend 90% of it's life on the track. I want suspension that is more designed for track use.
My budget is fluid, in that it depends on what other bits cost. I thinkthe absolute max cost is £1200 if new.
My budget is fluid, in that it depends on what other bits cost. I thinkthe absolute max cost is £1200 if new.
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Sorry - but which Coilovers??
I have a set of XYZ's on my MR2 which is track use only. Not likely to ever see a road! I will put up a review of them through this year and let you all know what I think of them and how they perform. I don't have a direct comparison as the car was previously on Shocks and TRD springs but we will see and I will let you all know my thoughts if that helps?
I tend to find unless you have people using them its easy to say stay away and until someone bites the bullet and gets a set we will never really know how they perform and can only make assumptions..
After experience of the XYZ 6POT brakes I was very impressed with these for the money. A friend of mine had a set on his GT4 and they were a big improvement on the standard brakes hence giving the coilovers a go. Worst case they will do any spring rate you want as will BC. If they are not great I will change the springs at a later date. Will keep you all posted after my first outing end of march.
Chris
I tend to find unless you have people using them its easy to say stay away and until someone bites the bullet and gets a set we will never really know how they perform and can only make assumptions..
After experience of the XYZ 6POT brakes I was very impressed with these for the money. A friend of mine had a set on his GT4 and they were a big improvement on the standard brakes hence giving the coilovers a go. Worst case they will do any spring rate you want as will BC. If they are not great I will change the springs at a later date. Will keep you all posted after my first outing end of march.
Chris
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Sorry - but which Coilovers??
I've gone for Tein Super Streets, and will also post some findings.... Budget dictated my decision in the end.
January 2014
May 2015
Still in the garage...
..the only thing I can promise for sure is slow progress.
May 2015
just have this niggling thought that if I rip out the wiring, then the car will never get out of the garage again.
Still in the garage...
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Sorry - but which Coilovers??
cool will be good to see a comparison and if you come to TSS we can compare results
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Sorry - but which Coilovers??
k11cpc wrote:cool will be good to see a comparison and if you come to TSS we can compare results
Like to think it will be when rather than if
January 2014
May 2015
Still in the garage...
..the only thing I can promise for sure is slow progress.
May 2015
just have this niggling thought that if I rip out the wiring, then the car will never get out of the garage again.
Still in the garage...
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Sorry - but which Coilovers??
GTS GAV wrote:Jap, European, and American brands too, such as Tein, HKS, Cusco Ohlins, Koni, KW, Bilstein, Penske, Dynamics/Multimatic, Sachs, JRZ, GAZ, etc all utilise Jap/European/American design, development and manufacture. the quality is high, sometimes so are there prices.
D2, KSport, Megan, F2, G4, HSD, BC Racing, XYZ etc are all designed, "developed" (i say it in inverted commas because there isnt any car-specific testing and development, which is why the damping imo is so poor) and manufactured in Taiwan and China. the problems arent a function of poor manufacturing standards, they are a function of the people designing them having no idea what damping a car requires for good performance needed for that percific aplication, comfort and durability, and genrally targeting profits over quality. the top Jap European and American brands have a long history in dampers, As they have been exstensivly developed in race aplication on each percific car they were intended for, that is the difference in quality and performance.
The easiest way i could summarise it is to say that a UK company could make a television, and a Taiwanese company could make one that was just as good. but if a Taiwanese company tried to build a Formula 1 car the same as the Brawn GP from this season they would fail, miserably. the reason being that there is decades of knowledge and experience behind the success of an F1 team, and the same applies to the components on the car (e.g. dampers in this case). you cant just manufacture something based on simple ideas and visual appearance and expect it to perform the same as the products from companies that have been doing it for decades at the highest levels of motorsport (which is where pretty much ALL of the major development occurs). what kind of serious motorsport does Taiwan etc have none atall.
Trust me dude if its a track car you really do get what you pay for . hope this helps
i thought this post looked familiar. then i realised, its because you just stole and partly reworded a post I made a while back in this thread
http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=124477
As for the original post - within that budget you've got a decent chance of finding yourself a set of used Ohlins that aren't knackered (many are, because people don't look after them), with enough money left over for a revalve, possibly a service. Nothing else in that budget will come close, but the Japanese valving in them isn't great on UK roads, so they really do need a revalve.