Radiator Mods

Discussion and technical advice for 84-89 AW10 & AW11 MR2. 3A-LU, 4A-GE, 4A-GZE.

Moderators: IMOC Moderators, IMOC Committee Members

System-G
Posts: 4554
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:50 am
Location: Leicestershire

Re: Radiator Mods

Post by System-G »

OK I think what you're missing out on is the important things like how long it was idling for, where and what the outside temperatures were...

I guess I'll add that little bit of info -

It was set up for JAE 2006 or 2007 where is was over 30degress in the shade. The car was left idling and I got distracted and forgot about it - for nearly 3 hours!!!

When I remembered/got back to the car the temp gauge was high (in the red) and I shut it down and left the car for the rest of the weekend. Drove home on the Sunday night (2 hour journey) and did 2 trackdays after with no problems at all.
It was after that I diteched the fans on the red car and had no probs since.

That's what I mean they weren't designed to idle by - I don't class sitting in traffic as idling for prolonged periods of time.

Fans are not needed in the UK :thumleft:
85 MK1 MR2 Track N/Ail | 99 528i SE Touring | 01 Mandarin VX220
PW@Woodsport
Posts: 7642
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:40 pm
Location: durham
Contact:

Re: Radiator Mods

Post by PW@Woodsport »

Sorry mate but you're talking absolute nonsense.

It was set up for JAE 2006 or 2007 where is was over 30degress in the shade. The car was left idling and I got distracted and forgot about it - for nearly 3 hours!!!


I thought Mk1's were not designed to sit and idle??? in your own words.

When I remembered/got back to the car the temp gauge was high (in the red) and I shut it down and left the car for the rest of the weekend. Drove home on the Sunday night (2 hour journey) and did 2 trackdays after with no problems at all.


You DID have a problem though, it overheated when left idling! #-o

I don't class sitting in traffic as idling for prolonged periods of time


You're off your head mate :lol:

Fans are not needed in the UK


YES THEY ARE!, i think Toyota might strongly disagree with you as well after all they designed it with fans, now why did they do that? folks do not listen to this absolute madman.... your Mk1 WILL overheat if you remove your rad fans, no argument, it just will.

Honestly Garrick that is just about the worst advice i've ever read on these forums. In fact i'm going to disconnect the fans on a Mk1 tomorrow and film it slowly overheating to prove it.

God has spoken. :thumleft:
Image
coverco
Posts: 1489
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:31 pm

Re: Radiator Mods

Post by coverco »

I don't come on here much anymore but the arrogance of Mr Woods has prompted me to add my opinion :D

PW@Woodsport wrote:
Fans are not needed in the UK


YES THEY ARE!, i think Toyota might strongly disagree with you as well after all they designed it with fans, now why did they do that? folks do not listen to this absolute madman.... your Mk1 WILL overheat if you remove your rad fans, no argument, it just will.


Toyota also designed the car to take a 1.6 Twin Cam engine but some madmen insist on putting larger engines in the car. Surely Toyota knew what they were doing when they designed the car, or does that only apply when you say so :thumleft:

A MK1 will not overheat if you remove the fans and take it on a track, there will be much more air passing through the radiator at 60mph than the fans could ever supply so the statement that "Your MK1 WILL overheat if you remove your radiator fans" is utter rubbish.

I have no idea what qualifications Mr Woods has, perhaps he has a degree in automotive engineering or perhaps he is just a mechanic, however Garrick has been running his car on track and road for over 3 years with no overheating problems, in my opinion this would suggest that it is safe to run a MK1 without radiator fans unless you are in the habit of leaving it ticking over for 3 hours without it moving :lol:

I am sorry but God is a bit too much, moderately talented mechanic is more accurate, unless of course you have a degree in engineering in which case I would say moderately talented engineer :thumleft:
System-G
Posts: 4554
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:50 am
Location: Leicestershire

Re: Radiator Mods

Post by System-G »

Do what you want Paul :thumleft:

It's no skin off my nose :mrgreen:
85 MK1 MR2 Track N/Ail | 99 528i SE Touring | 01 Mandarin VX220
PW@Woodsport
Posts: 7642
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:40 pm
Location: durham
Contact:

Re: Radiator Mods

Post by PW@Woodsport »

Don't worry I will , starting with a video tomorrow showing what utter tripe this is...

Oh and tommy, I've forgotten more than you will ever know.

Leave the rad fans off, classic!
Image
Clarky_X
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:28 pm
Location: Northants

Re: Radiator Mods

Post by Clarky_X »

Interesting debate chaps. Before I join in can I just say, top one Jimi as per. I have just bought some mesh from rockshore and am about to do a mesh panel myself. I also have a 12" fan in the garage but I did buy that to put on the intercooler. I actually bought a couple of fans from TCB Parts and Trevor told me that they have 2 fans, so I assumed they all had 2 fans.

Anyway, I can see both sides here and it really does depend on the conditions you use your 1 in. I use mine as a daily driver and I've had my current one for 9-10 months. There is a slight oddity with mine in that it has lumiglow dials and the water temp needle doesn't sit on the C when off/cold, it sits lower down, so normal operating temp is actually about 1/3 between C and H rather than 1/2.

Now, I didn't realise my car had no fans when I bought it so I just drove it every day no worries, but I commute to work on dual carriageway and don't get stuck in traffic, so plenty of air flow over the rad. Plus as I bought my car in summer, I always had the heater on cold so never got excessive heat in the car so didn't make me think anything of it.

However, recently I changed offices and started getting stuck in traffic more often and the needle defo got up there past 1/2 which bearing in mind the start position of the needle/calibration, I'm thinking is basically "Kettle!". And it was winter so I had the heater up and I was cooking which obviously made me look at the needle cos even on those nippy autumn morning's I'd never got much heat in the car.

And another thing, unbeknown to me my rad picked up a stone chip the other week and was leaking very slowly, one morning on the way to work I thought I saw exhaust smoke in the rear view mirror but then realised it was coming from the engine lid, looked at the needle and it was nearly up to H, so with my pooglow clocks, that is way past 100% and I pulled over and turned off the engine for 20 min on the slip road (this was all due to an accident and me sitting almost stationary for nearly 20 min). When the traffic freed and I got moving the needle was still up there even when moving, so I pulled over and the header tank was empty. I limped home slowly and chucked a couple of litres of water in. I've not drained or flushed the system but the water is brown ish, bit pink from old anti freeze. I stuck some rad weld in and it is holding temporarily but I need a new rad and will flush the whole system out. I will fit the TCB fans when I fit the new rad as my current rad has bent fan brackets so they won't fit and would break off if I move them.

The previous owner of this car took the fans off because they never came on (apparently) but he only used to go 1 mile to work so never got the car warm and on the couple of long journeys he did, he was moving.

So from my personal experience I would never not run fans again. If it is a pure track car then maybe I'd consider taking them off, as the track air flow should be sufficient, but not in my experience on a daily driver than can be stuck in traffic.

Hope that helps someone.

Oh and Jimi, if you're still reading, where did you get your rad and how much, when I looked the other week I think fast rads were cheapest on the net at about £98. Can't remember if that was inc or exc VAT.
cartledge_uk
Posts: 7608
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 6:28 pm
Location: Newbury

Re: Radiator Mods

Post by cartledge_uk »

Try here for rads

http://www.buypartsby.co.uk/radiators-buy.php


coverco wrote:I don't come on here much anymore but the arrogance of Mr Woods has prompted me to add my opinion :D

A MK1 will not overheat if you remove the fans and take it on a track, there will be much more air passing through the radiator at 60mph than the fans could ever supply so the statement that "Your MK1 WILL overheat if you remove your radiator fans" is utter rubbish.

I have no idea what qualifications Mr Woods has, perhaps he has a degree in automotive engineering or perhaps he is just a mechanic, however Garrick has been running his car on track and road for over 3 years with no overheating problems, in my opinion this would suggest that it is safe to run a MK1 without radiator fans unless you are in the habit of leaving it ticking over for 3 hours without it moving :lol:

I am sorry but God is a bit too much, moderately talented mechanic is more accurate, unless of course you have a degree in engineering in which case I would say moderately talented engineer :thumleft:


](*,)


Please dont anyone read this and think you can do away with rad fans on a road car.
coverco
Posts: 1489
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:31 pm

Re: Radiator Mods

Post by coverco »

PW@Woodsport wrote:Don't worry I will , starting with a video tomorrow showing what utter tripe this is...

Oh and tommy, I've forgotten more than you will ever know.

Leave the rad fans off, classic!


Unbelievable. Your arrogance truly knows no bounds paul. As you know I have a degree in mechanical engineering, have you honestly forgotten more than I know, or are you just really rubbish at remembering things. There really is a difference between a mechanic and an engineer, trial and error does not work in real engineering :lol:

You may have forgotten (I know you forget a lot) that Formula 1 cars do not use radiator fans as they would actually decrease cooling due to getting in the way. I do hope your video will not be of a stationary car as Garrick has said that is a bad idea :-k
coverco
Posts: 1489
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:31 pm

Re: Radiator Mods

Post by coverco »

cartledge_uk wrote:Try here for rads

http://www.buypartsby.co.uk/radiators-buy.php


coverco wrote:I don't come on here much anymore but the arrogance of Mr Woods has prompted me to add my opinion :D

A MK1 will not overheat if you remove the fans and take it on a track, there will be much more air passing through the radiator at 60mph than the fans could ever supply so the statement that "Your MK1 WILL overheat if you remove your radiator fans" is utter rubbish.

I have no idea what qualifications Mr Woods has, perhaps he has a degree in automotive engineering or perhaps he is just a mechanic, however Garrick has been running his car on track and road for over 3 years with no overheating problems, in my opinion this would suggest that it is safe to run a MK1 without radiator fans unless you are in the habit of leaving it ticking over for 3 hours without it moving :lol:

I am sorry but God is a bit too much, moderately talented mechanic is more accurate, unless of course you have a degree in engineering in which case I would say moderately talented engineer :thumleft:


](*,)


Please dont anyone read this and think you can do away with rad fans on a road car.


Are you suggesting that Garrick is telling lies about his car? I know he has no fans as I saw the car at Tatton last year which was a scorching weekend. He drove it there fully loaded with 2 people and a dog in it and it did not overheat. MR2s were designed to be run in different countries where the temperatures vary greatly. As we know the UK is cooler than most countries so the cooling system will be over efficient for this country :-k
cartledge_uk
Posts: 7608
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 6:28 pm
Location: Newbury

Re: Radiator Mods

Post by cartledge_uk »

coverco wrote:

Are you suggesting that Garrick is telling lies about his car? I know he has no fans as I saw the car at Tatton last year which was a scorching weekend. He drove it there fully loaded with 2 people and a dog in it and it did not overheat. MR2s were designed to be run in different countries where the temperatures vary greatly. As we know the UK is cooler than most countries so the cooling system will be over efficient for this country :-k


I'm saying that having seen a number of mk1s with no rad fans have temperatures start to rise.

If you read my posts you will clearly see that I say whilst moving mk1s have zero problems with cooling if the system is running well, on idle, stationary after a period of time they will overheat.

Try it, disconnect your fans and leave it on idle for 3hours. Report back what happens :thumleft:
PW@Woodsport
Posts: 7642
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:40 pm
Location: durham
Contact:

Re: Radiator Mods

Post by PW@Woodsport »

Tommy show me once where i said the car will overheat ON THE MOVE.

I have stated throughout this thread that the car will overheat AT IDLE if you take the fans off, nothing more, of course the airflow on the move will keep the temp down, THAT'S THE RADS JOB!. I suspect you never even read my posts properly and merely came on here to have a pop like you usually do.

You can wave your willy about as much as you like and quite frankly stick your engineering degree where the sun don't shine as far as i'm concerned, but if you think i'm going to let people insult me by calling me "god" and then you question my qualifications (not that is either any of your business or relevant to having an opinion on ANY subject) then you are sadly mistaken. If you would like a list of my qualifications i'm quite happy to send you a CV :clown:

I suggest you do as Tim says, go disconnect your fans and report back when it overheats at idle.

Also what the hell have my engine conversions on Mk1's got to do with Toyota's design? I know full well i am doing something they did not design, that's the whole point, to make the cars better, faster, brake better etc.... not take vital bits off that they DID design that will cause the STOCK engine to overheat.... you're talking crap mate.

Forum misinformation is a personal bugbear of mine, it costs people money and time through stupid advice dished out and this "leave your fans off, it will be fine" is just about the worst i've ever heard, almost laughable.

I very much doubt Garrick or Tommy would pick up the repair bill on a cooked engine on a members car because he took that advice, but it's ok, Garrick goes on trackdays and Tommy has a degree :thumleft:

As Tim says, please if you are reading this thread, DO NOT go and disconnect or remove your radiator fans, utter madness.
Image
PW@Woodsport
Posts: 7642
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:40 pm
Location: durham
Contact:

Re: Radiator Mods

Post by PW@Woodsport »

Just realised Tommy hasn't read a single thing i posted, and is having a go at me based on the argument that i have somewhere said it will overheat on the move.... well Tommy here is every post i have made on this thread about the lack of fans AT IDLE

Maybe you will read this, you clearly didn't read my other posts...

i don't know how you are getting away with that because if i leave a Mk1 sitting idling it will eventually heatsoak and overheat.


A perfectly functioning cooling system will let a Mk1 idle all day long WITH FANS and no overheating!


also saying mk1's aren't designed to sit and idle is never going to be something anyone could possibly agree with,sorry


The first stage is whisper quiet and is usually all that is needed to keep the temps low at idle


Without fans and sitting idling there is nothing to lower the coolant temp at all, and it WILL eventually heatsoak and overheat, sorry but it just will.


You DID have a problem though, it overheated when left idling!


As for your "formula 1 cars don't have fans " crap...... what happens if they leave one idling on the grid?? :clown:
Image
System-G
Posts: 4554
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:50 am
Location: Leicestershire

Re: Radiator Mods

Post by System-G »

cartledge_uk wrote:
Try it, disconnect your fans and leave it on idle for 3hours. Report back what happens :thumleft:


I would also suggest trying to leave a car with fans connected idling for 3 hours and see how it gets on :thumleft:
I think one will find very similar effects allbeit a longer process.

When my old red car overheated (not to the point where the HG went or anything, just very hot) it also had a recent new rad and full coolant refresh using MrT's long life. There was nothing wrong with the cer or it's cooling system before or after. It just got really hot. Perhaps I was lucky?

Shortly after that I removed the fans.

And then under mix of road driving which included more than two two hour motorway runs to London to sit in standing traffic for an hour each time, being caught on the M6 for 3 hours in stop-go traffic to countless number of Euro-trips with average speeds excess of 90mph combined with excessive track use with no advberse effects.

Perhaps I'm lucky?

Tim, didn't you run your race car fanless too?

I know Phil ran his N/A sprint car fanless and possibly also now it's SC'd.

IMO if the cooling system is looked after and the engine regularly serviced, fans are not necessary in the UK. It is my opinion based on my own experiences. it's not suggesting anyone should just go out and do it.

The cars were designed in Japan where the average annual temps are much higher than the UK and were sold in OZ and SA - also where annual temps are mcuh, much higher than the UK and in those climates, I wouldn't dream of running any AW11 fanless.

Paul, when you post your video up later, I would like evidence that the car is fully road legal with recent MOT, recent service with full coolant flush and fill/bleed etc... with For Life, then show it running to failure - just to make it a fair unbiased display :thumleft:
85 MK1 MR2 Track N/Ail | 99 528i SE Touring | 01 Mandarin VX220
autobody
Premium Member
Posts: 492
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:30 am
Location: Manchester

Re: Radiator Mods

Post by autobody »

I cant believe what I am reading... fans are needed if car is stood still (from my experience)... as one of my old mk1's the fan stops working and the temp went high... it has good service history with the car, coolant changed with expensive stuff.
cartledge_uk
Posts: 7608
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 6:28 pm
Location: Newbury

Re: Radiator Mods

Post by cartledge_uk »

System-G wrote:When my old red car overheated (not to the point where the HG went or anything, just very hot) it also had a recent new rad and full coolant refresh using MrT's long life. There was nothing wrong with the cer or it's cooling system before or after. It just got really hot. Perhaps I was lucky?


You say yourself it got hot???? regardless of 'damage' your cars temps rose above normal running temps. ](*,)


System-G wrote:Tim, didn't you run your race car fanless too?


Yes,

And I had the temps rise on more than a few occasions.

*red flag part into race, then regrid (cold weather) temps rose and I had to turn the engine off (so did a few other cars)
*red flag 1 lap into a race at brands (Hot), regrid, temps rose and I (and others had to turn the engine off)
*^^ at above event one car didnt turn ignition off quick enough and got too hot, after race the coolant was dry and the engine was dead (this was one of stoner racings cars so that doesnt count :wink: )
*M25 when the wombles closed a section and was moving at ~3mph for about 1hour, I couldnt get the car cool.
*bedding in a rebuilt engine on idle, started getting very hot after 1hour.


And some parts of japan are actually colder than the uk :thumleft:
Boddney
Posts: 591
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:43 am
Location: Horsford, Norfolk

Re: Radiator Mods

Post by Boddney »

So, To sum up,

Leave your fans in for peace of mind or take them out if you want but, dont idle for to long at a time or it may just go all wrong and cost a few quid.
And all this just to save a few lb's

THE CHOICE IS YOURS.

Also, Jimi is a clever guy and he has put a fan back on so go figure.
You can see which way I lean on this subject.
cartledge_uk
Posts: 7608
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 6:28 pm
Location: Newbury

Re: Radiator Mods

Post by cartledge_uk »

Boddney wrote:So, To sum up,

Leave your fans in for peace of mind or take them out if you want but, dont idle for to long at a time or it may just go all wrong and cost a few quid.
And all this just to save a few lb's

THE CHOICE IS YOURS.

Also, Jimi is a clever guy and he has put a fan back on so go figure.
You can see which way I lean on this subject.


Yep :thumleft:

(although getting rid of the heavy fans for a lightweight fan is the best way)
Dale_V
Posts: 7979
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Radiator Mods

Post by Dale_V »

way to go with the dumb advice in this thread :clap: ](*,)
coverco
Posts: 1489
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:31 pm

Re: Radiator Mods

Post by coverco »

Boddney wrote:
Also, Jimi is a clever guy and he has put a fan back on so go figure.
You can see which way I lean on this subject.


Jimi is indeed a clever man, so are you suggesting that anyone who removes their fans is stupid?
I really despair with the level of intelligence on this forum sometimes, I have had a number of cars with manually switched radiator fans and have never turned them on, Garrick runs his cars fanless and has had no problems maybe it is because we are stupid though :thumleft:

Dale_V wrote:way to go with the dumb advice in this thread


What advice is that? The fact that someone has run their car for over 3years without radiator fans with no problems? That is not advice it is a statement, no one has advised anyone to do anything they have just shared their experience. I really wish the education system in this country could be improved to help people grasp simple concepts ](*,)
PW@Woodsport
Posts: 7642
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:40 pm
Location: durham
Contact:

Re: Radiator Mods

Post by PW@Woodsport »

You have the nerve to call ME arrogant after a post like that? :lol:

I really despair with the level of intelligence on this forum sometimes


Nice! So the whole forum has a poor level of intelligence in your opinion, and i'm the arrogant one? That is so unbelievably condescending i don't know where to start.

so are you suggesting that anyone who removes their fans is stupid?


Yes! I would call that an incredibly stupid thing to do. Risking your engine boiling over and cooking/warping the head just to save 3 or 4 kilos is not a clever thing to do now is it? Tell me Tommy, do you run your car without fans? In fact it doesn't matter how you answer that, i'm sure you will justify yourself regardless, after all you do have a degree. :thumleft:

You conveniently haven't replied to the attack you launched at me based on me supposedly saying this was an issue when the car is moving, when in fact i have only ever said it matters at idle. I too wish the education system would improve peoples reading skills instead of them glossing over.

You are also ignoring the fact that Tim also does track days, and has noticed his engine overheating, so have others, so have i!!! Why are you so ignorant of the findings of the majority?

Maybe i should start a new thread with a poll? "Do you run your Mk1 without fans?" and do you think it is a clever thing to do? I wonder what the outcome would be? Would you like to see?
Image
Post Reply

Return to “MR2 MK1 1984-1989 NA & SC”