Battery - dead ?

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GaryR
Posts: 302
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:53 pm
Location: Cambridge

Battery - dead ?

Post by GaryR »

I think the battery in my car has finally died. I've had to keep charging it up every weekend*, and when I came back from a 2 week holiday, it didn't even have enough charge to turn the engine over.

It's been on charge since Friday night, yet this morning only had enough power to crank the car for about 30 seconds, before running out of juice, which wasn't enough to start the car so I can't move it anywhere.

I'm pretty sure it's dead (battery charger showing 5amps on it's charge meter), but just in case it's an earth lead or electrical problem with car, is there a way of confirming this at home with a (small) multi-meter ?

Cheers,
Gary.
*I don't use the car during the week.
kevin..in
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Re: Battery - dead ?

Post by kevin..in »

if it won't take a charge either your charger is no good or the battery is dead
being as it goes flat while on the car safe bet is battery
PW@Woodsport
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Re: Battery - dead ?

Post by PW@Woodsport »

the question should surely be why is it taking 30 seconds of cranking to start the car? 2 or 3 seconds max and it should be firing up.... are we talking really slow cranking? or 30 secs of fast cranking? if so you definately have a problem thats not just battery related.

check your gearbox to chassis earth strap too.

when you do get it started first thing to do is check the charging rate with a multimeter
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GaryR
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Location: Cambridge

Re: Battery - dead ?

Post by GaryR »

PW@Woodsport wrote:2 or 3 seconds max and it should be firing up.... are we talking really slow cranking? or 30 secs of fast cranking?


May be 30 seconds is a bit much, I suspect it more like 10, getting slower and slower, the engine is *almost* firing, but there just isn't enough juice coming from the battery to spin it for long enough.

I did wonder about the earth lead - I'll have a look and check it's not all rusty.

Do I need a special battery, or could I borrow one from my KA and use that to get it started ?

Cheers,
Gary.
Last edited by GaryR on Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
flippin'eck
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Location: Liverpool

Re: Battery - dead ?

Post by flippin'eck »

I don't know whether it's generally considered a good idea or not, but I have borrowed a battery off a diesel mondeo in the past a few times in similar circumstances - and nothing bad came of it. Maybe a 'wrong battery' might allow too high a charge rate once started and that might have negative consequences if you left it running for a while? I should think it would be fairly unlikely if the battery size wasn't too dissimilar..

Can you not just jump start it from the ka?

One thing I have found from experience is to stay away from cheap jump leads btw.. some of them have a great big fat insulation to give the appearance of being heavyweight, cut them open and there's just something like a piece of fusewire inside :mad:
crazylegs
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Location: Wiltshire

Re: Battery - dead ?

Post by crazylegs »

there is no wrong battery as such. they just have different outputs. if you need a battery i have found toyota to be the cheapest around.
GaryR
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Location: Cambridge

Re: Battery - dead ?

Post by GaryR »

After having the battery on 'fast' charge for most of the day, I finally got the car started... to a very high pitch scream and smoke. Quickly turned it off, let the smoke clear and the drive-belt was a bit warm, so I'm guessing seized alternator. :(

I'll have the belt off tomorrow and see if I can turn the alternator by hand.
PW@Woodsport
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Re: Battery - dead ?

Post by PW@Woodsport »

as suspected this is an alternator issue rather than a battery one,it nearly always is.
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jimi
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Re: Battery - dead ?

Post by jimi »

If it won't turn by hand, don't jump to the conclusion that the bearings are seized and you need a new alternator, here's why:-
I was having bother with mine seizing up while I was away at work for 3 weeks, when I came home I would have to "persuade" it to turn with a pipe wrench, once I turned it a couple of times it would free up and would be fine while I was using the car daily, then when I was away for 3 weeks it would seize up again.
I assumed it was the bearings, so after a couple of months I picked up a couple of bearings and removed the alternator to replace them.
To my surprise when I removed the end caps the bearings were fine ( they are also pretty substantial and good quality)
On closer examination I discovered the problem. It was a build up of rust on the field coil formers (the laminated metal part the coils are wound round) and on the rotor. The gap between the rotor and coils is only a few thou so it doesn't take much to close it, that coupled with the (relatively) large surface area involved is enough to lock the alternator up.
I cleaned up both surfaces with some fine emery cloth ( taking care not to damage the insulation on the field windings) and gave them both a very thin smear of grease.
I rebuilt the alternator with the original bearings and put it back on my car, it's fine fine for the last 6 months :thumleft:
Having seen the quality of the bearings and the clearances of the rotor and taking into account the position of the alternator on the car, under the engine vent. I am pretty sure that this is root cause of many of the "siezed" MK1 alternators that we hear of, if that suspicion is correct then the repair is both cheap and relatively easy :D
HTH
Jimi
PW@Woodsport
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Re: Battery - dead ?

Post by PW@Woodsport »

totally bang on jimi :thumleft:
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GaryR
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Re: Battery - dead ?

Post by GaryR »

Thanks for the information. I didn't get time to do anything on Sunday, too busy watching the F1-GP. \:D/

I did read my Haynes manual about removing the Alternator and it says I need to remove the exhaust to get at it.... do I really have to, as this makes the job more of a pain ?
PW@Woodsport
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Re: Battery - dead ?

Post by PW@Woodsport »

ignore haynes,no need to remove the exhaust.
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j0nathan
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Re: Battery - dead ?

Post by j0nathan »

...like Paul said - no need to remove the exhaust - and he should know!

Don't do what I did though and drop the damn thing on your head if removing from underneath the car - bl00dy hurts - this is what happens when you are laying in a puddle and a touch peed off with the whole thing. The alternator can be manipulated past the exhaust and other bracketry without much problem.
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