xxxx - BEWARE (spamming)

[Howling_Mad]

----- Original Message -----
From: Garrick Abrahamson
To: xxxx
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 4:29 PM
Subject: Re:


I don't know where you got my email adress from... But I thought I'd let you know that I do not apreciate being spammed like this.

I feel you have once again over-stepped your boundaries as you did in the MR2 and GT4 comunities and further alienating yourself and your business.

Not only have you spammed me, but also my partner - neither of which have a use for your products or your forum.

Your emails are considered unsolicited and are abusing our privacy. Your details will be forwarded to relative spamming auithorities including including Trading Standards and your ISP.

If i replied to every spam email i got like that i'd be a busy bee

A this aint trader feedback and B this type of thread really doesn't do IMOC any good whatsoever.

[Lauren]

If the above are the original un-edited emails then Tim, you have the right to be annoyed. BUT, dude please stop getting emotionally involved. I've joined your new forum and it's great - a welcome addtion to IMOC for all my MR2 advice.

My advice, Tim (and I say this with the utmost respect) would be to conduct ALL correspondance with anyone in a 100% professional way: you are representing a business after all. Even when you're not in the wrong, it might just be wiser to except defeat for the sake of your long term reputation.

From what I've gathered, the people who you've helped - including me - in some way (minor advice to full on work) have nothing but 100% praise for you. This is admirable.

Don't let the witch hunters get you down. This thread is a witch hunt. Ignore them, Tim

I don't believe this is Trader feedback because T. B devloopments is not an IMOC trader.

This forum is actually to report positive and negative feedback from all traders that members might use whether they are IMOC traders or not. The email that Tim posted is after Tim had been rude to Garrick's girlfriend so its no wonder Garrick is annoyed. In this respect its out of context. Neither Garrick nor Jo have ever visited Tim's forum nor his website so you can understand their frustration. In fact Jo was nothing but polite to him, interesting how those emails were never posted. I am only posting this for balance.

[dude541]

tim,
i wouldnt even bother posting on this thread anymore,just as others have said.
no matter what you do certain people will try to twist it around!

i think they should get out more!

my 2p

[RichLee]

I cant understand why such a fuss was kicked up in the first place, the way i see it is that this is just a continued 'witch hunt' where something so minor is put up onto the forum to develop it in something so much more serious.

Tim runs his shop that has the option for any user to subscribe to a newsletter, someone must have used Garrick and Jo's email address at some point whether it be recently or several years ago when the shop first started.

Thier email addresses are on many club forums so could be obtained by any joe bloggs out there.

At the end of the day Tim sent out a newsletter using the email database from his online shop, fairly innocent stating that he had lauched a new forum and welcomed those people emailed to sign up if they wish.

Garrick and Jo replied and Tim agreed to remove the email addresses and apologised for the inconvience!

Why blame him for something that was out of his control, EVERY company on the internet is at the same risk of bogus sign up's if they have the option for a newsletter to be sent out!

I would also like to point out that during Tim's whole banning situation the IMOC commitee would not even look at emails sent to him from other Traders that were of a threatening nature...what has changed since then that has made IMOC look more deeply into something that happend off the forum???

Its one email, no bad service, no bad products!!!!

"ooooooo don't use Tim's services, he sent me a spam email!!!!!"

Let it drop and grow up for Gods sake!

[Babboon]

Let it drop and grow up for Gods sake!

I agree, this isn't worthy of all the fuss & doesn't do anyone any good.

[Grajey]

Lauren wrote:
This forum is actually to report positive and negative feedback from all traders that members might use whether they are IMOC traders or not. The email that Tim posted is after Tim had been rude to Garrick's girlfriend so its no wonder Garrick is annoyed. In this respect its out of context. Neither Garrick nor Jo have ever visited Tim's forum nor his website so you can understand their frustration. In fact Jo was nothing but polite to him, interesting how those emails were never posted. I am only posting this for balance.

Now I'm sure a previous contentious thread from a while back stated that if it don't happen through IMOC then it's nothing to do with IMOC.
I can't see any balance myself!

[Slarty]

Oh jeesh

We all get spam mail, both virtual and literal.

I get both from companies I have never used. Do I rant and rave about them? No, I simply delete them or throw them in the recycling rubbish.

Please people, let's take the adult route to all of this and just treat it as what it is?

No? ok, I'll shush up then

[System-G]

You can say what you want and publish my emails - I don't have a problem with it.

Tim I didn't get involved in the original saga or anything that followed. I didn't intend this as a witch hunt I was pointing out that I find it a little annoying that you don't research your client base before spamming people who have no need for your product or forum.

I wasn't really that put out until your emails got what I consider abusive towards Jo's polite requests to be removed from your emailing list.

You certainly don't know me and we have never met. I can also garantee you neither of us have registered on any of your online stuff. Jo cannot ever recall meeting you either.

I have done what I felt was necessary and have contacted the necessary authorities/governing bodies.

Modderators can remove this thread if they wish as it has turned into something I never intended.

Oh, and I am still waiting for your proof of our details on your "database"...

[RichLee]

I didn't intend this as a witch hunt I was pointing out that I find it a little annoying that you don't research your client base before spamming people who have no need for your product or forum.

What??? How can you research an email database with almost 1000 addresses??? You seriously need to remove your head from your ar$e and start living in the real world, a world full of SPAM emails! The best thing you could have done in this situation like many others was just hit the delete button!

I wasn't really that put out until your emails got what I consider abusive towards Jo's polite requests to be removed from your emailing list.

Erm you both threatened to report him from the very first email you sent back to him thus taking the agressive stance, all you had to say was "Tim, please remove me from your newsletter, thanks."

I have done what I felt was necessary and have contacted the necessary authorities/governing bodies.

I think they have better things to do than chase up an email asking you to take a look at a forum, plus both of your email addresses are available on public forums by your own choice...so they wont do a single thing about it!

This thread should be deleted, it does not reflect the way Tim does business and in no way mentions the quality of his products and the quality of service.

[SySanguinary]

This thread should be deleted, it does not reflect the way Tim does business and in no way mentions the quality of his products and the quality of service.

This does reflect the way Tim carries his business out.
Maybe the products and service are spot on. From what I have been reading over the last couple of months Tim has a very nice business with alot of support and happy customers.

However, as a business owner myself I know it has to be about the full picture not just the products and service. If it were me and my business I would be absolutely sqeeky clean by now so I didn't risk annoying anymore potential customers.
Even if a customer comes back to me with something that I didn't do I still smile, apologise and then bend over backwards to sort the problem out.
Maybe it's just me but is it so difficult not to p1$$ random people off?

[System-G]

it does not reflect the way Tim does business and in no way mentions the quality of his products and the quality of service.

I beg to differ.

Besides Rich, WTF you you know about marketing and ensuring spam sent out reaches the people that will benifit from it?
There are many,many much larger companies out there with millions & millions of customers, yet somehow they manage to get it right...

If this thread shows any indication to the type of clientelle Tim/TB Developement has/wants, I rest my case

I stand here (seeming to be on my own) saying I'm pee'd off that I received spam mail from a trader without any forethought as to wheather Tim or myself woould benifit from me joining his forum in any way. I also felt it best to warn fellow IMOCers that if they politely declined his invitation, and that they could be thrown open to a bit of abuse as in the case of the reply Jo received.

I would also like to point out in the initial spam mail I received it mentioned:

We’ve adapted a friendly car community

Now if all you supporting TB in this thread are any indication of a friendly car community, I'm glad I had no intention of joining his forum, using his products/services or signing up to any promotional gumf

[luthor1]

Looking at this another way, shall I post threads from my inbox regarding ALL the CAR related SPAM I receive? "car weekly magazine" "fastcar newsletter" blah blah?

If yes: this is a valid post to the "trader feedback forum"

If people think "No that would be ridiculous" Then can this be locked and allowed to die?

If the people who start the thread have (by their own admission) never been to the site, never signed up, never used any service and never MET TB/xxxx, then I think this feedback is completely against the spirit of this part of the forum, and is just a sounding board for breeding further bad feeling in IMOC.

TB is not an affiliate, and the poster has no experience whatsoever of the trader, so how can they post regarding spam from a car trader?

[RichLee]

Besides Rich, WTF you you know about marketing and ensuring spam sent out reaches the people that will benifit from it?
There are many,many much larger companies out there with millions & millions of customers, yet somehow they manage to get it right...

I know a lot more about it than you I'm sorry to say, considering I do Online Marketing and Graphic Design has my daily job i dont think you are in a position to start questioning what i know!

Companies generate mailling lists from current customer databases...many are also branching out to the web to advertise services and products though websites and have the same option for you to enter your email to submit it to a database to recieve such information.

You are basically having a go at Tim over something that was out of his control, as far as he was concerned his newsletter database was full of people that wanted to recieve it. You replied in a threatening manner saying you were going to report his to the relevant authorities without even giving him the chance to apologise, yourself and Jo threatened the same action.

Would you not do the same though if ti was your business?
You have a database of 1000 potenial customers who have signed up to recieve a newsletter...you would damn sure use it without question yes?


Just drop it because everyone else can see how pathetic this is anyway!

[tonigmr2]

Actually there have been other threads when people complain at being spammed by a trader - where their address has been harvested from IMOC. I dealt with several myself previously as an admin.

In that context this is a legitimate post IMHO, we've had them before they've just never been that noticable before because we didn't have a 'traders' area, and the guilty party wasn't so infamous .

Put it this way, if I rang a company who were in turn rude to me, I'd report it here even though I strictly didn't use a service or buy a product from them. It's the experience of how they dealt with me/my complaint that would be what I'd report, and I'd say that is what Garrick is reporting.
T

[luthor1]

Unfortunately Toni, Garrick is definitely *not* reporting the rude behaviour, since the topic title regards "spamming" and nowhere in the first post does he mention rude behaviour.

It was only in his 3rd reply that he mention rude emails

so this post is DEFINITELY about spamming, let's not get confused

[DMC Paul]

I just recieved this what do I do????? I have never contacted them

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[tonigmr2]

Unfortunately Toni, Garrick is definitely *not* reporting the rude behaviour, since the topic title regards "spamming" and nowhere in the first post does he mention rude behaviour.

It was only in his 3rd reply that he mention rude emails

so this post is DEFINITELY about spamming, let's not get confused

I do agree with you it is about spamming, but it's the subsequent of how his complaint was dealt with that led to the post. I did also say we have had threads complaining about spamming before (first sentence), so either is justified IMHO.

/Not wanting to argue! Not commenting on TB, only validity of post.

T

[tonigmr2]

I just recieved this what do I do????? I have never contacted them

Report their ISP and complain to the admin if you believe your address was harvested from IMOC.
T

[DMC Paul]

How do I know if it was harvested through IMOC I use many sites

[tonigmr2]

How do I know if it was harvested through IMOC I use many sites

There's your answer. Jo I believe only has her email displayed here on IMOC and has never received other spam, hence annoyance.

T