[Mk2] [NA] cams and pulleys

[andyc1988]

hey,
Just been looking into making my n/a go a bit faster, have already got an uprated exhaust with decat , induction kit and the engine has been chipped. I keep the engine well maintained use mainly quality brands and its only run on optimax. I looked into getting some cams but dont really have a clue! i looked on piper cams they offer kits etc if i wanted it done do i need to get the uprated pulleys too? and it also mentions some internals may need upgrading? they offer various things and packages does anybody have them fitted on a n/a and if so what is the expense in having them fitted and could you feel the power gains at all?


p.s HAVE A GREAT XMAS EVERYONE! had my mr2 a while now I love it, its a joy to drive and a pleasure to see when i open my curtains every morning

[Ryan.g]

Hi Andy,

Piper do offer some good cam kits and depending on what profile you use you can get some good noticeable gains. With any cam kit you will need to get some vernier/adjustable pulley's, these are they only accurate method of timing cams properly.

Your internals will only need replacing if you get cams that require the engine to rev considerably above the factory set rev limit. I would say that up to 8 thousand would be pretty safe but no further without forged pistons etc.

I know couple of they guys at piper and so can get you pretty cheap kits, the kind of profile that would be ideal for your car can be machined from a standard cam, so if you sourced a pair of cams i could have them sent to piper and reprofiled.

I will contact them after christmas and pm you a price if you like. For the reprofile and verniers it will be about £320. This coupled with a decent exhaust and air filter will give you and extra 20-25bhp and a decent increase in mid range torque.

If you need any help with fitting dont hestitate to pm me or call 07754526821

Cheers Stu

[scottish_mr2]

i wouldn't bother with cams until you've sorted the engine breathing (intake and exhaust out properly first) i.e. induction kit, manifold, exhaust and decat.. because there is absolutely no point in uprating the cams if you have a restriction either before or after them as they won't work to their full potential.. if your also getting cams i would strongly suggest alos getting your car mapped (air/fuel and timing done) with something like the Greddy Emanage or Unichip as the stock ECU will still be working on the base parameters..

to give you an idea of how much difference a manifold will make - I have a Fujitsubo 4-2-1 system (with Apexi induction kit, custom intake pipe and breather, mongoose exhaust and decat) and my car made 174 bhp (fly) and 146 lb.ft of torque.. a bit of a hike from 154 bhp and 140 lb.ft torque as standard...

the reason they advise you that you will need work done on the engine is due to the fact that the rev1/2 engines having shim over buckets and the rev3 engines having shim under buckets.. it is stronly adviseable to either get a shimless bucket conversion or a shim under bucket conversion carried out if uprating cams on a rev1/2 engine..

HTH

[scottish_mr2]

Hi Andy,

Piper do offer some good cam kits and depending on what profile you use you can get some good noticeable gains. With any cam kit you will need to get some vernier/adjustable pulley's, these are they only accurate method of timing cams properly.

Your internals will only need replacing if you get cams that require the engine to rev considerably above the factory set rev limit. I would say that up to 8 thousand would be pretty safe but no further without forged pistons etc.

I know couple of they guys at piper and so can get you pretty cheap kits, the kind of profile that would be ideal for your car can be machined from a standard cam, so if you sourced a pair of cams i could have them sent to piper and reprofiled.

I will contact them after christmas and pm you a price if you like. For the reprofile and verniers it will be about £320. This coupled with a decent exhaust and air filter will give you and extra 20-25bhp and a decent increase in mid range torque.

If you need any help with fitting dont hestitate to pm me or call 07754526821

Cheers Stu

i've always wondered about this.. how can stock cams be reprofiled to give greater lift and duration??.. in order to gain lift the lobes need to be bigger or am i missing something??..

[andyc1988]

well I have a hks induction kit a full exhaust with decat ive seen these manifolds on ebay so thats the best next step you reckon? there not that expensive do you know if they cost alot to fit? cheers for the advice anyway guys =D> just seems that the 2 has very little low down power, from 30 she pulls quite nicely

[simmo490]

[/quote]
i've always wondered about this.. how can stock cams be reprofiled to give greater lift and duration??.. in order to gain lift the lobes need to be bigger or am i missing something??..[/quote]

not sure about them having a greater lift but yeh u can reprofile them for a longer duration, just flat the lobe off a bit

[andyc1988]

Ive heard of a 3s-ge engine, which i have in mine a 3s-gte the turbo and the 3s-fe but i was lookin at that 4-1 2 manifold mentioned and its for a mr2 91-95 but for a 5s-fe? is that the smaller engine 3s-fe then? and does that mean the manifold is not for my engine? just got me confused lol

[petrolheadhall]

The 3s-fe is 16 valve, but single over head cam engine, its still a 2.0l but not very powerful by comparison to the 3s-ge.

Replacement exhaust manifolds generally produce a very small increase in bhp and torque, 4 into 2 into 1 manifolds give increased midrange torque, where as 4 into 1 manifolds give better top end. The the more air flow you use i.e. more cam and higher rpm or more boost the more effective a manifold becomes.
If manufactured correctly they gain you more power by scavenging, this means that the escaping gas from cylinder 1 for example helps draw in air into cylinder 2 for the next combustion cycle. If the manifold is correctly setup for a 3s-fe engine then it will not be as efficient as one designed for a 3s-gte, but whether the manufacturer has gone into such detail i very much doubt as the 3s-fe is such a low volume engine in the mr2.
They would not be very expensive to fit, in less than an hour we could fit one for you and have her up and running. Not expensive at all.

Reprofiled cams do cause a bit of confusion, what happens is the cam lobe is reprofiled to the required duration, then the other side of the lobe which is circular rather than egg shaped is ground down, this would cause a gap between the cam and follower. This gap is corrected with a slightly thicker shim. By doing this, the cam can produce higher lift ant TDC. And so a reprofiled cam can change the duration and the lift of the valves.

Getting a re-mapable ECU is very expensive and would not give you very much extra power for the 600+ pounds you would have to spend to get one as well as having it fitted and mapped. For the addition of cams you may need a little extra fuel pressure but that would be about it.

Tuning your car can be a very confusing and expensive process, personally i think it would be fantastic to see more N/A mr2's pushing the power boundary's. It is very realistic to expect well over 260bhp from a well tuned N/A! watch this space!!! But considering the cost of a turbo lump transplant or even a V6 camry lump, you can get huge power gains for your money!

But once again if you do want to chat about what options you have and what you would like to achieve from your car, don't hesitate to pm me or give me a bell.

Stu

[andyc1988]

cheers for the advice mate yer id love to get a tubby lump or v6 put in but insurance wise I couldnt get insured until at least a few more years time! and the thought of doing nothing to my car for that time scares me! so id like to look in what gains I could make and where abouts is the best way to gain them for my money!

[Peter Gidden]

I know couple of they guys at piper and so can get you pretty cheap kits, the kind of profile that would be ideal for your car can be machined from a standard cam, so if you sourced a pair of cams i could have them sent to piper and reprofiled.

Reprofiled cams are cheap but have fun finding shims.... A set of non-Toyota custom shims will cost hundreds of £s.....

If you're going to get a pair of aftermarket cams buy them ground on new blanks. Yes more expensive, but they will take shims within Toyota's standard shim range.

[Race Idiot]

i wouldn't bother with cams until you've sorted the engine breathing (intake and exhaust out properly first) i.e. induction kit, manifold, exhaust and decat.. because there is absolutely no point in uprating the cams if you have a restriction either before or after them as they won't work to their full potential.. if your also getting cams i would strongly suggest alos getting your car mapped (air/fuel and timing done) with something like the Greddy Emanage or Unichip as the stock ECU will still be working on the base parameters..

to give you an idea of how much difference a manifold will make - I have a Fujitsubo 4-2-1 system (with Apexi induction kit, custom intake pipe and breather, mongoose exhaust and decat) and my car made 174 bhp (fly) and 146 lb.ft of torque.. a bit of a hike from 154 bhp and 140 lb.ft torque as standard...
HTH

Is there an aftermarket manifold for the rev3 na's? Because I would like to go along the lines of induction kit, manifold, decat and exaust. Would it be worth it? Or would I just end up failing the mot.

[scottish_mr2]

The 3s-fe is 16 valve, but single over head cam engine, its still a 2.0l but not very powerful by comparison to the 3s-ge.

Replacement exhaust manifolds generally produce a very small increase in bhp and torque, 4 into 2 into 1 manifolds give increased midrange torque, where as 4 into 1 manifolds give better top end. The the more air flow you use i.e. more cam and higher rpm or more boost the more effective a manifold becomes.
If manufactured correctly they gain you more power by scavenging, this means that the escaping gas from cylinder 1 for example helps draw in air into cylinder 2 for the next combustion cycle. If the manifold is correctly setup for a 3s-fe engine then it will not be as efficient as one designed for a 3s-gte, but whether the manufacturer has gone into such detail i very much doubt as the 3s-fe is such a low volume engine in the mr2.
They would not be very expensive to fit, in less than an hour we could fit one for you and have her up and running. Not expensive at all.

Reprofiled cams do cause a bit of confusion, what happens is the cam lobe is reprofiled to the required duration, then the other side of the lobe which is circular rather than egg shaped is ground down, this would cause a gap between the cam and follower. This gap is corrected with a slightly thicker shim. By doing this, the cam can produce higher lift ant TDC. And so a reprofiled cam can change the duration and the lift of the valves.

Getting a re-mapable ECU is very expensive and would not give you very much extra power for the 600+ pounds you would have to spend to get one as well as having it fitted and mapped. For the addition of cams you may need a little extra fuel pressure but that would be about it.

Tuning your car can be a very confusing and expensive process, personally i think it would be fantastic to see more N/A mr2's pushing the power boundary's. It is very realistic to expect well over 260bhp from a well tuned N/A! watch this space!!! But considering the cost of a turbo lump transplant or even a V6 camry lump, you can get huge power gains for your money!

But once again if you do want to chat about what options you have and what you would like to achieve from your car, don't hesitate to pm me or give me a bell.

Stu

the 3SFE is a 2.0 16v twin cam engine as well... - not sure where you got the single cam from??..

as for 'modest' increases from a manifold.. i have an apexi induction kit, mongoose and decat and Fujitsubo Super EX manifold (4-2-1) and made:

141.7 bhp at the wheels
173.8 bhp at the fly
145.7 lb.ft of torque

which was the most torque from any other NA that ran that day (including a BEAMS)..



so it really depends on what you refer to as 'modest' - all NA mods will produce 'modest' increases in comparison to tubbies etc.. but you need to ensure that there are as little restrictions as possible on the intake side and exhaust side - before even contemplating cams.. as for £600 for an aftermarket ECU - that seems a little excessive when I've been quoted £395 fully fitted and mapped for a Unichip.. the Unichip can control not only AFR but also ignition timing so if you have a properly prepped NA i.e. induction, exhaust, decat, manifold and cams then you should see some pretty respectable gains...

HTH

[scottish_mr2]

i wouldn't bother with cams until you've sorted the engine breathing (intake and exhaust out properly first) i.e. induction kit, manifold, exhaust and decat.. because there is absolutely no point in uprating the cams if you have a restriction either before or after them as they won't work to their full potential.. if your also getting cams i would strongly suggest alos getting your car mapped (air/fuel and timing done) with something like the Greddy Emanage or Unichip as the stock ECU will still be working on the base parameters..

to give you an idea of how much difference a manifold will make - I have a Fujitsubo 4-2-1 system (with Apexi induction kit, custom intake pipe and breather, mongoose exhaust and decat) and my car made 174 bhp (fly) and 146 lb.ft of torque.. a bit of a hike from 154 bhp and 140 lb.ft torque as standard...
HTH

Is there an aftermarket manifold for the rev3 na's? Because I would like to go along the lines of induction kit, manifold, decat and exaust. Would it be worth it? Or would I just end up failing the mot.

Tanabe make a 4-1 manifold for the 3SGE (rev3) as do Phoenix Power.. but they are pretty expensive and pretty rare.. your best speaking to the likes of www.takakaira.co.jp r.e. sourcing something like this for you.. i've got a Fujitsubo Super Ex on mine - but it's only suitable for a rev1/2 3SGE and i had to import it direct from Japan.. it's also pretty rare (i only know of 1 other car with one on it) and it's also pricey - mine was £570 delivered.. although i think it was worth every penny!