To T-Bar or not to T-Bar

[Urban Assault Vehicle]

Hi all,

After lurking and posting mostly in "Off Topic" for what seems a life time, I finally have enough cash to get myself a 2.

I've decided for economy sake to get a NA. Should get a pretty decent one for £6K should I not, Rev 5+?

At the risk of starting a "friendly" debate - am I best going for a T-Bar or a solid tin top

The reason I ask is that I have always had my heart set on the T-Bar (purely for summer posing ) but a friend has recently bought a CRX Del Sol in which I've noticed the roof leaks fairly regularly. This had led to a few wet backsides enroute to work in the mornings !

Therefor, this has kind of put me off the idea of the T-Bar. I would really appreciate both parties points of view as I don't fancy spending all that cash only to be disappointed with the end result!

Cheers guys/guyettes,
Graeme.

[algie]

I've owned both. A N/A T-Bar and now a tin-top tubby.

I solved the leaking t-bar issue with eccentric rod guides and in the summer it was great driving with the top open.

To tell the truth I haven't missed it with the tubby as driving it with all that power is so much fun anyway.

If I had had more cash when buying the tubby I would have got a T-Bar - it just adds more fun.

[Geoff J mk2 96 n/a]

Hi Mate

I've had my n/a T-bar about 4 years now, when the car was about 5 years old water started to leak in I took it to the Toyota garage who said the rubber seals needed replacing. I tried the Halfords rubber treatment (but not the extra inserts which you can apparantly buy) but this didn't work.

New rubber seals cost about £200 per side & they're a pain to fit. Fortunately this was all covered by the warranty I took out (bought it from a Toyota dealer). The bill was nearly £400 for one side, now everyone knows Toyota arn't exactly cheap when it comes to labour costs & maybe if I hadn't had the warranty I'd have tried a few other options first but its just to give you an idea.

I've always said that if I were to buy a turbo it'd be a tin top GTS because t-bars do eventually leak as all rubbers will eventually start to perish. I now use the halfords rubber replenisher each year to help prevent it in the future (or at least slow it down).

On the flip side it is actually quite good fun having the roof off & I've enjoyed the summer but again I find I can't always be bothered taking the roof off ...maybe I'm just lazy!!

At the end of the day its upto you mate but there's nothing more annoying than water leaking in & going by how often I take the roof off I would say don't bother. You should be able to get a tin top cheaper than a t-bar too!

Hope that helps!

Geoff

[Muffleman]

Yup, up to you buddy, go see\drive both and see what you prefer.

The roof out is cool tho

[T600]

I don't think any of us can guide you here as it's such a personal choice.

Personally I love the T-Bar and wouldn't have bought the MR2 if it was a coupe - having a car with a removable roof is that important to me.

Before the 2 I had a convertible (Boxster) and wouldn't go back to a tin top for anything. In most respects the T-Bar is far more practical than a canvas hooded car; though if you are caught in the rain it's a pain having to get out of the car to fit the roof on. With the roof on the amount of light the panels let in is fantastic - unlike hooded cars which can be very dark and dingy once their hoods are up.

Fortunately mine doesn't leak and it's 11 years old. Even if it did I'd rather put up with a leak, or else pay whatever it cost to have it fixed. My car's garaged and rarely goes out in the rain anyway, so the panels are almost never on the car.

My car had one previous owner when I bought it and I'm fairly sure he garaged it too; and he didn't use it much as it's only got 25K miles on it. Maybe that's why the roof's not leaking?

Anyway, your money your choice. Have you driven a T-Bar with the lid off? If not try one - you'll love it; and if you don't then save yourself the hassle and buy a coupe. The coupe's more rigid too, so the handling is better; if that's more important to you then it's a no brainer - get the tin top.

[robbie_742003]

Hi
With my N/A there is a small amount of flex, i think this is a small price to pay for the enjoyment you will have with the roof off.Also remember, not all T-Bars leak, mine drips very little when driving into strong wind and rain. You may find they will be slightly cheaper this time of year too!!

Enjoy!

[pecky]

you cant beat a t-bar its great in summer, mine leaks now and then but nothing to moan about really

at the end of the day its wot will make u happy as its your money mate

[MartG]

Owned 2 Mk1 sunroof versions, and currently have a Mk1 T-bar and just collected a Mk2 T-bar this week. The Mk1 leaks a bit ( not surprising for an 18 year old car ), but usually doesn't go out in the rain. No signs of leakage on the Mk2 yet, and its a Rev2 so older than you are looking for anyway.

Pros - great in summer with the panels out ( inc. more helmet room on trackdays ), brighter interior

Cons - heavier than tintop, less stiff chassis ( though partially redressed through std fitment of strut braces ), prone to condensation which drips on your head in cold weather

[MarcMR2]

i would get a t-bar mate!

picked up my 96 n/a t bar up last week and i've never had so much fun. It did leak but fixed that with some silicon lubricant yesterday. As someone has already mentioned tho u are probably better to try both since the sunroof model won't be too much of a difference.

[Mikey P MR2]

My 14 year old Rev 1 T bar never leaks (although may have been repaired by past owner).
From my experience one of the causes of leaking I have seen on these cars has come from the frame less front windows not being correctly aligned, something that could also happen on a coupe.
I would highly recommend the T bar as it’s also one on the main reason I wanted to get a MR2. It’s also much less likely to leak than most proper convertibles.
If you want a T bar go for it , the extra enjoyment in the summer will far out way the possible leaking.
Mike

[tonigmr2]

Have had both versions

t-bar - great fun in the summer, they nearly always leak in the winter, but I really like the ability to look up and see the sky...

coupe - more headroom and stiffer drive. Though personally don't think the average driver would notice any chassis difference.

T-bars are easier to re-sell IMHO if that adds any weight to your decision, but as a result often you have to pay a little more to buy one.

T

[Urban Assault Vehicle]

Thanks for the input folks, much appreciated.

I think the general consensus is that those with T-Bars thoroughly enjoy them! I have been in a few full on convertibles but didn't really think that much of them. Have also had a test drive in a T-Bar but never had the opportunity to get the tops off - I can understand why you all like the amount of light they let in though.

I'm not really the type of driver that would worry about the stiffness levels of a T-Bar, or the increase in weight as I'd rather just appreciate the car and keep it clean rather than drive it hard or take it to levels where things like that would be of concern.

I was hoping that since its coming up to the time of year when its not practical to sell cars, especially cars of a convertible nature then I might be able to pick up a bargain and get more for my money - thus leaving more money for tasteful mods . I'll just have to keep my eyes peeled.

Thanks again for all the comments, you'll no doubt hear how I get on.....

[Lauren]

Thought i'd add my thoughts as i don't think they've been covered by anyone else. I've had both t-bars and coupes.

I really wanted a t-bar for my first MR2 and got it. It didn't leak unless it was in a monsoon and i really liked the idea of open top motoring without the hassle of a soft-top, sounds like the perfect compromise to me.

The reality for me was that i soon tired of messing around with the t-bar roof, also without the sunshade in it was akin to sitting in a greenhouse which i didn't like much.

The biggest problem however is the buffeting. At anything over 30mph it does become a bit annoying and in the end i stopped taking the roof off because i ended up looking like i'd been dragged through a hedge backwards. IMO it doesn't cut it as a good halfway house between tintop and convertible. I had an MX5 for a while and that was fantastic driving everywhere with the roof down. Hardly any buffeting either.

Up to you of course, but i'd never have a t-bar again and my last two MR2s have been coupes.

[Leon.]

I've owned a sunroof model N/A and now a T-bar tubby.

T-bar all the way I say. Sunroof was pretty much a waste of time IMO, never rises very much, never lets in much air, and would be a pain in the ar$e to stow away under the front bonnet.

T-bar is fantastic. Open top driving like this is awesome, it increases the entire driving experience. The increased sound of dump valves or meaty exhausts is also great, and IMO the T-bar/targa top is the best type of removable roof/cabriolet.

I really don't find removing the T-bars an effort at all, it only takes about 15 seconds per side max, and always gives me a big smile even before I start driving

Only real drawbacks are leaking (not on mine and I very much doubt on a 6k N/A), buffeting (only at 60mph + in my experience on rev 4+), and chassis strength/weight increase (both of these are incredibly minimal and you would be hard pushed to tell any difference, IMO). Leaking is prevented by a good soaking of silicone lubricant at least annually. Installation of eccentric rod guides is the next step if leaking persists.

By the way, £6k is a good amount to spend, especially as the market has really gone down hill lately. You should get a good rev 5 for that or certainly a top rev 4.

[Urban Assault Vehicle]

Cheers for the info guys. Some conflicting views are always a good thing!

Stupid question time...... what is meant by the term "buffeting"?

G.

[Quigonjay]

Cheers for the info guys. Some conflicting views are always a good thing!

Stupid question time...... what is meant by the term "buffeting"?

G.

lol, its the turbulence you get in the cabin from the air flow not being able to flow over the car properly
just to add, i was originally after a coupe myself but have just bought a tbar as i was tempted by the engine spec and better future resale value. I'll probably never take the roof off

[miss mk1]

Just to add my two pence worth - i have a t-bar (alright its mk1) but it leaks badly - so badly that ive had to seal the t-bar in with black silicone because i cant stand it any longer

i will sort it out properly when i get enough money for new seals

those who say they would put up with the leak - no you wouldnt - its a pain in the ar$e! wet ar$e every morning - getting soaked even though your inside the car! hating using the car because the leak is making you miserable - spoils the whole experince of driving a '2

added side effect - makes the car stink - for the amount of times i actually take the t-bar off - it hasnt been worht it one little bit - and it feels like a greenhouse in the summer if you dont want to be a poser and take the roof off

if you are going to buy a t-bar then drive it in the rain first - if it leaks leave it alone! the only way to sort the problem (yes ive tried everything else) is buy new seals and as said above this is not cheap by any standard!

but its your choice

T x

[Leon.]

I can understand people's views and experiences on leaky t-bars.

However, you must remeber that this guy is after a rev 5, which would be 8 years old at most. It is unlikely that the rubbers would leak but of course it is possible if they've not been looked after. If they did leak, I'm sure they could be fixable with low cost alterations (since it is a rev 5).

If the heat through the glass is a problem (can't say I've ever found it too much) then get some tints on the glass, or take the t-bars off LOL!!

I bought my car in April this year and have had the t-bars off more than half the times I've driven, and I use it daily. I do live in the South though

Best way to check leaks if your test driving is just to pour plenty of water (e.g. from a bottle) over the 2 roofs and check for leaking a few minutes later. Unless its pi$$ing it down of course!

[Lauren]

Cheers for the info guys. Some conflicting views are always a good thing!

Stupid question time...... what is meant by the term "buffeting"?

G.

Basically you get a resonance at say 70mph which means its reasonably loud, but the main problem is that it wrecks my hair as it tries to suck it out of the roof. I am amazed nobody else has mentioned it. It gets very tiring on a long journey. T-bar off is fine for going about town, but on short trips it becomes a PITA to keep taking it off and putting it back on again.

[LimeyMk1]

Drove all the way from home (nr Guildford) to Birmingham topless at motorway speeds. Can't say it was that bad with the windows up, I admit if you leave them down it feels like you're being punched in the ears! Doesn't mess my hair up.