at what point do peeps rebuild theres engines???

[jimGTS]

if they decide to upgrade internals?
bigger turbo???
engine dies??


i might next year get a hybrid turbo of some kind (300-400bhp), just want to know is an engine rebuild the best plan just incase the engine blows, or is it purely down to the fact that the engines cant handle this sort of power and blow, hense a rebuild ??

what are the time and costs of such a thing being done?
its a far far away thing in the back of mind, i just wondered what happens etc etc

[Muffleman]

I was planning to go for an extreme hybrid and it's on the car now, so I had the engine rebuilt ready for it. I went for forged pistons, steel rods, steel head gasket etc and it cost me £4k., that included removal and refitting.

The Toyota engines are strong, but I'm aiming for 400bhp+ so I will be greatly increasing the energies and forces going through the engine. Plus as my cars an Import, I have no idea as to the history, and so I opted for the rebuild.

I now know that I have a strong engine on which to strap everything to

Just my 2p.

Matt

[jimGTS]

that does sound excessive, dont think i could spare that sort of money in reality.
may opt for a hybrid ct26, run say 18psi and be done with it.
thatll say get me up to 300, id be happy with that.
wouldnt require any internals and the engine should be able to cope with that with any luck.

[Muffleman]

The £4k did include some other parts whilst they were there, ie clutch, ported head etc, but it was still a hard pill to swallow, and unsurprisingly, the quote was for less than the £4k final bill !!!

I'm sure there are more technically proficient peeps on here to shout if I'm wrong, but I would imagine that 350ish bhp is fine on a healthy engine ? Especially if you protect it, ie all ancilliaries in good condition, good cooling, regular oil changes etc.

[Al-sw20]

but I would imagine that 350ish bhp is fine on a healthy engine ?

Jeff Fazio has 440rwhp...not bullshitehp and it has had quite a bit of competition time in that state of tune, even more in its 308rwhp and 351rwhp with 24psi boost.

Over 500rwhp has been attained on a stock motor.

[jimGTS]

but I would imagine that 350ish bhp is fine on a healthy engine ?

Jeff Fazio has 440rwhp...not bullshitehp and it has had quite a bit of competition time in that state of tune, even more in its 308rwhp and 351rwhp with 24psi boost.

Over 500rwhp has been attained on a stock motor.

stock engine, just bolt on's yes???

[Fonzy]

Jim in honesty a new set of forged pistons with rings and well mapped engine management will about take whatever you can throw at it as long as all the power providers are themselves supported with other mods. Ie turbo and intercooler, injectors and pump, etc etc etc etc.

Fonzy

[jimGTS]

Jim in honesty a new set of forged pistons with rings and well mapped engine management will about take whatever you can throw at it as long as all the power providers are themselves supported with other mods. Ie turbo and intercooler, injectors and pump, etc etc etc etc.

Fonzy

i appreciate that, what im asking is at what point are internals nessassary i guess (hense a possible rebuilt in the process).

if i strapped on a larger turbo (with i/c, d/p, better exhaust), and say hoped for a max of 300-350bhp (with unichip thrown in to take care of the fueling side of things).

id rather not the hassle of an engine out job with the changing of pistons etc etc, getting past my possible budget.

[Muffleman]

but I would imagine that 350ish bhp is fine on a healthy engine ?

Jeff Fazio has 440rwhp...not bullshitehp and it has had quite a bit of competition time in that state of tune, even more in its 308rwhp and 351rwhp with 24psi boost.

Over 500rwhp has been attained on a stock motor.

stock engine, just bolt on's yes???

Sounds like it, but it's a risky business. I have seen a Supra in america with over 900hp (hat's american hp ) on a stock engine, but it's a risk you take and not one I personally would run.

Does sound like you wont need a complete rebuild with forged pistons for the power that you're after.

Incidentally, I was talking to a tuning company a while ago and I said that I had just spent £4k on a rebuild and they said 'is that all' as if to say, well that's not gonna be any good

[Fonzy]

A point to consider here is perhaps at what stage if necessary should you rebuild the engine.

Its already been mention that there are cars running that kind of power on stco internals, and with members here hitting 35o odd on stocks then why bother now, get the supporting mods bolted up, you might get years of good service out of her.

So its like this

a) do it all now with huge expense

or

b) do the supporting mods now and wait for the signs of failure


A good example for this is MikeJc running big ish power on stock internals and has had good service out of it, so soon its time to rebuild but atleats he has manged to spread the cost slighty.


Another option which is less risky, is to buy a long block and work on it over a period spreading costs, when your ready slap it in.

[pnjmcc]

Sorry to high-jack this thread but whats a "Long Block"

TIA

Regards
PaulM
92 G-Ltd.

[Fonzy]

its refers to a block and head rather than just the block

[jamief]

Another option which is less risky, is to buy a long block and work on it over a period spreading costs, when your ready slap it in.

Which is exactly what Im doing

Means it can take as long as necessary, no rush, and the car is drivable all the time.

[Al-sw20]

but I would imagine that 350ish bhp is fine on a healthy engine ?

Jeff Fazio has 440rwhp...not bullshitehp and it has had quite a bit of competition time in that state of tune, even more in its 308rwhp and 351rwhp with 24psi boost.

Over 500rwhp has been attained on a stock motor.

stock engine, just bolt on's yes???

Yes. Bolt on parts. GT30 turbo. Hydra Nemesis EMS. WolfKatz rail, new pump, injectors, trunk mount intercooler, cams, intake manifold etc etc, and the most important part..... good TUNING.

[Rogue]

i appreciate that, what im asking is at what point are internals nessassary i guess (hense a possible rebuilt in the process).

Easy rule of thumb - at the point you need to increase the injector size, it's time to strengthen the internals too.

Rogue

[THE DUKE]

if i strapped on a larger turbo (with i/c, d/p, better exhaust), and say hoped for a max of 300-350bhp (with unichip thrown in to take care of the fueling side of things).
.

i think you'll struggle to get much more than about 300hp without injectors, fuel pump, regulator and a proper ECU.. You could use a unichip but its not the best solution for the problem!

Let me know how it goes anyhow, im in the market for the big 400 at the mo..

[jimGTS]

if i strapped on a larger turbo (with i/c, d/p, better exhaust), and say hoped for a max of 300-350bhp (with unichip thrown in to take care of the fueling side of things).
.

i think you'll struggle to get much more than about 300hp without injectors, fuel pump, regulator and a proper ECU.. You could use a unichip but its not the best solution for the problem!

Let me know how it goes anyhow, im in the market for the big 400 at the mo..

i havent the expense for it at the moment, it was just a possibility if i wanted big hp next year.
just wanted a rough guide as to which point a rebuilt is best.


thanks for your input peeps.

[deadhumancollector]

An idea for you on cost, i bought all the parts myself including stage 3 turbo, forged pistons, new intercooler, clutch and flywheel, tubular manifold, downpipe. The cost of fitting all this and having a full rebuild set me back £2500 just for labour, which did include the rebore, head rebuild, rebuilt and balanced bottom end.

Thought that was a reasonable price from a guy who used to work on the toyota rally team in belgium.

Don't know how that compares with the rest of the country though.

[JekylandHyde]

stock engine, just bolt on's yes???

Yes. Bolt on parts. GT30 turbo. Hydra Nemesis EMS. WolfKatz rail, new pump, injectors, trunk mount intercooler, cams, intake manifold etc etc, and the most important part..... good TUNING.

GT35R turbo.

The engine is the original with 202,500 miles on it.
We dropped cams adn can gear in, but everything else (valves, springs, rings/ppistons, crank, rods, etc) is really old

Details here:
http://www.jekylhyderacing.com/

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[matt_mr2t]

If your going for BIG power I'd consider stand alone Jim.
IMO go for your power, then if and when it goes boobs up then get it re-built.
No point spending thousands on a healthy engine.
I'm sure simple things like compression tests can tell you roughly the state of your engine now?