TRD thermostat for track use. Yes or No?

[GreddyMR2]

Hi,

I'm planning to fit TRD thermostat, but firstly I need some opinions.

My car is mostly used for a track. Sometimes as a daily/weekend car.
Should I fit TRD thermostat or not? It should keep my engine cooler.

Thanks

[Marf]

Just leave the standard one in there.

No need to run the engine cooler, oil needs to get up to temp and heat helps fuel atomise better in the intake plenum

Running the engine cool on the road means your oil won't get up to temp and your ECU may stay in cold start mode.

If you are concerned about high temps, fit a water temp gauge and monitor temps, if they are too high, upgrade your radiator.

[Peter Gidden]

Just leave the standard one in there.

No need to run the engine cooler, oil needs to get up to temp and heat helps fuel atomise better in the intake plenum

Running the engine cool on the road means your oil won't get up to temp and your ECU may stay in cold start mode.

If you are concerned about high temps, fit a water temp gauge and monitor temps, if they are too high, upgrade your radiator.

+1

[GreddyMR2]

Thank you both, saved me some money

But don't understastand why TRD should even make this thing if it's useless.

[Shmed]

Playing devil's advocate a bit, but the TRD thermostat is much cheaper than a new radiator. I have one on my (old) car and I certainly didn't have issue with oil being too cool on the track, I also never had a problem with engine overheating (with stock rad).

[Shmed]

But don't understastand why TRD should even make this thing if it's useless.

I bought a 'TRD' oil filler cap because it was TRD, so must be an enhancement. The first time I drove the car hard, the oil cap blew off. Ran stock ever since.

Someone told me that TRD never actually made oil filler caps. Not sure if that's true, but 'they' know that if you stick a brand on something, people will likely buy it....

[Marf]

Playing devil's advocate a bit, but the TRD thermostat is much cheaper than a new radiator.

Yeah but think about it, if the engine is going to overheat, it's going to overheat.

All the TRD stat will do is open at a lower temp, it won't actually stop the engine overheating if the radiator is not up to the job, especially on a track car.

[Shmed]

That's true, more like delaying the inevitable if there is a problem.

Hypothetically though, if there isn't a problem with overheating, or getting the oil up to temp, would it be better to run the engine coolant cooler? I suspect it's a moot point as there will be a point at which the stat will be open all the time whether TRD or stock (when running on track).

[Marf]

Hypothetically though, if there isn't a problem with overheating, or getting the oil up to temp, would it be better to run the engine coolant cooler?

Optimum operating temp for most engines is around the 90c mark.

[Shmed]

I think the TRD opens at 78 (from memory).

Bit of a tangent, but what about the 1.3 bar rad caps? I have one. It says Blitz on it, so it's great....but does it help? Doesn't the boiling point go down at higher pressure? Is that a good thing?

[jimGTS]

Oil cap blew off??

How is that even possible?? The thing is screwed in!

Id expect your cam cover to blow a gasket before anything could somehow unscrew an oil cap!

If you run aftermarket ecu, you can tune for the lower coolant temps with the TRD stat, but on a stock ecu, a TRD stat will only cause problems, ie be in low temp mode all the time.

[Shmed]

Maybe it wasn't screwed on properly?! Either way, when I set off, it was on, when I stopped, it wasn't

[Marf]

I think the TRD opens at 78 (from memory).

Bit of a tangent, but what about the 1.3 bar rad caps? I have one. It says Blitz on it, so it's great....but does it help? Doesn't the boiling point go down at higher pressure? Is that a good thing?

Boiling point goes up with pressure.

Basically my view on the engine coolant system is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", and I certainly wouldnt get into running lower engine operating coolant temps just because I might have the ability to tune for them with an aftermarket ECU.

Cooler aint always best, unless we're talking intake temps.

[Harold]

I think the TRD opens at 78 (from memory).

Bit of a tangent, but what about the 1.3 bar rad caps? I have one. It says Blitz on it, so it's great....but does it help? Doesn't the boiling point go down at higher pressure? Is that a good thing?

Boiling point goes up with pressure.

Basically my view on the engine coolant system is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", and I certainly wouldnt get into running lower engine operating coolant temps just because I might have the ability to tune for them with an aftermarket ECU.

Cooler aint always best, unless we're talking intake temps.

It also probably isn't a good idea to be running extra pressure through a 20 year old cooling system, unless you know that all the hoses and clamps etc are either new or in top condition. As Marf said, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[ashley]

Just an observation here, but was talking to my brother this weekend about coolant temperatures on another engine he is tuning (in his professional capacity), they ran it at 90c and at 80c by switching thermostats (all on an engine dyno- so like for like tests in every way).

The conculsion was more torque and power made with the coolant running at 80c. I was suprised- I thought you wanted to run hotter to make more power...


I'm planning on going back to an 80c thermostat when my engine goes back in (having run both in the past)...

[Marf]

Just an observation here, but was talking to my brother this weekend about coolant temperatures on another engine he is tuning (in his professional capacity), they ran it at 90c and at 80c by switching thermostats (all on an engine dyno- so like for like tests in every way).

The conculsion was more torque and power made with the coolant running at 80c. I was suprised- I thought you wanted to run hotter to make more power...


I'm planning on going back to an 80c thermostat when my engine goes back in (having run both in the past)...

Like for like on an engine dyno sure, doesnt mean squat in the real world with the engine in a car IMO. The map will be altered once the engine goes in the car anyway.

[ashley]

Like for like on an engine dyno sure, doesnt mean squat in the real world with the engine in a car IMO. The map will be altered once the engine goes in the car anyway.

Sorry mate- that made me spit coffee across my keyboard, doesn't mean squat? Sure thing, can't imagine why respected, professional race engine builders even bother with this kind of testing before deciding how to run their engines...obviously a complete waste of time


I was expecting a comment more along the lines of different engines, different results- and this was not a toyota engine. However the results do seem counter intuitive: heat makes power (except in intake temperatures), so why running the coolant a bit cooler would make more power seemed strange. None the less, for this engine that is exactly what they found...food for thought, in the real world I doubt you'd notice any difference so for the price: yeah go for a stock stat.

I'm planning to use a lower temp one just because I can

[Marf]

Is there really coffee on your keyboard, or was that just hyperbole?

Doesn't mean squat because an engine dyno map is always going to be different to the finished road car map. Sure, the engine dyno map will form the base, but it'll be adjusted after thousands of hours of road testing in various environments. Ditto race cars, the engine dyno map will form the base, but will be adjusted after many laps on track with data logging feeding back.

If they were controlling coolant temp, which I believe is possible on an engine dyno, I might be more inclined to believe what you've been told.

The ultimate operating temp won't be affected by the stat, so I really doubt the claim about more power, regardless of its provenance.

I eagerly await the before and after dyno showing your increased torque and power from running a lower temp thermostat as well as confirmation that your lower temp thermostat has resulted in lower engine operating temps once the engine is fully warm

I'm planning to use a lower temp one just because I can

And I'm going to fit an F1 hybrid turbo on my car cos on an F1 engine they make 1000 horsespowers!

[ashley]

OK- maybe it didn't make it onto the keyboard, but I did snort it up my nose trying not to laugh out loud in the office

No need to doubt what I have been told- I have no reason to lie, and the data came straight from the guy who is setting up the mapping on their 2014 race engines...who likewise had no reason to lie to me: it was part of another discussion and was there as an observed fact, not part of any "trying to prove" something type argument.

Yes- they will adjust the base maps once on track, of course they will...but regardless, if they see a change in dyno power as a result of a change in operating temperature then they will choose base setup using this data. You could then argue that the benefits of this decision will still be realised even after all the live mapping as it is embedded in the setup.

If an engine makes more power at a lower temps on the dyno, it will still have the potential to do so on the track.

The ultimate operating temp won't be affected by the stat, so I really doubt the claim about more power, regardless of its provenance.

Not sure I agree with this statement: the stat is designed to open and allow the coolant access to cooling at a specific temperature. If it opens at 80c and lets the coolant see the rad, the the rad should help keep the coolant at ~80c. If it opens later, then it will moderate the coolant operating temperature up accordingly.

This of course assumes that your rad setup is capable of cooling the coolant to at least 80c, which would be an interesting test in our cars.

Nothing wrong with trying to use engineering lesson learnt to try an improve our cars, I'm not claiming I'm going to make 1000hp from changing the stat...just sharing some interesting beta I have access to...if you chose to disbelieve it that's fine

[Marf]

Well like I say, I'll await the results of your swapping to a lower temp thermostat. The before and after dyno sheets and coolant temp logs will make interesting reading for sure