Rebuilding a Rev3 3SGTE to Stage 2 spec

[CalMac]

I've just bought myself a Rev3 3SGTE engine with LSD box, hubs, driveshaft, rear brakes and ABS callipers, ECU and loom to convert my Rev1 NA. Don't really know much about engines if I'm honest but I'm heading straight in the deep end because I want to learn and I'm already at college two nights a week so I can't enrol on mechanics as well as my electrics course Anyway, thought I'd pick the brains of you lot because you all know a hell of a lot more than I do!

Having looked at KO Racing 'How to make power with a 3SGTE' and read all of you posting about your turbos on here for a year I have a rough idea about 3SGTE modification but it would be great if you could give me a shove in the right direction as a lot of it still goes over my head

Apparently all I need to get it going is an intercooler - so to start with I'm thinking of a Greddy variant as I've seen quite a few floating about on the FS section recently (not sure if this is a sign of their desirability though..?).

Ideally I'd like to completely strip down and rebuild, clean, paint and polish the whole lot before wedging it into my car, so I may as well take my time and spread the cost across a few months. I'm rebuilding my 3SGE at the moment anyway, so might stick that back in the car temporarily so I can enjoy it in the meantime


So where do I start with rebuilding a 3SGTE? I've had a friend (experienced jap specialist mechanic) quote me £150 if I provide all the parts, which I'm very tempted by as I have a tendency to drag things out and I'll start forgetting how to re-assemble it

What I'd like to do:

Intercooler upgrade
Rad upgrade

Balanced crank
Aftermarket cams
Adjustable cam pulleys
Balanced aluminium crank pulley (already purchased)
Aftermarket valve springs
Would the valves themselves need upgrading? The name Ferrea rings a bell
Port and polish head

Exhaust I'd like to fabricate myself, 2.5" or 3"? De-cat. Will probably get hold of a nice hefty 2.5mm m/steel race manifold though as that may be too much of a challenge to make. Equal or non-equal length runners?

Aftermarket ECU/piggback - Link or Power FC seem to be the most commonly used
Fuel cut defencer
Aftermarket boost gauge and boost controller (Apexi PFC commander unit is a boost controller right? Or have I got that completely wrong)

Colder plugs (these help to prevent detonation am I correct?)
???cc injectors? Seen all sorts of injector threads and still haven't a clue. Obviously they're required to maintain the higher power resulting from all this work by providing more fuel
NGK plug wires

ACL bearings?
ARP headstuds, flywheel bolts

Aftermarket clutch - not a clue here
Lighter flywheel

Air intake in sealed aluminium box (these are fun to make!)

Bigger turbo..? Gt30? Are the wastegate and turbine housing upgradeable parts?
Aftermarket BOV


I guess the next step would be forged pistons and rods which just permit you to achieve silly power levels safely but that may be a bit ambitious for now, even though this lot ain't gonna be cheap as it is.

What I'm really after is a street driven weekend car, although maybe I'll have the urge to go tracking one day long ahead in the future! I really love the lumpy idle sound, which from what I can tell is achieved by messing with the timing and going for lairy-ass cams?


Any recommendations on parts to go for, or reading material to bury myself in for a few weeks?

Sorry, I know all this has been covered before but I think it would be great to have the combined knowledge and ideas of everyone in one big thread for future reference. I've spent ages trying to use the search function but it really just baffles me, as it either comes up with absolutely nothing when you're too specific or you end up with a list of every thread on IMOC maybe I'm doing it wrong.. If there already is a thread along these lines then I apologise.

And yes, I do go on a bit

Calum

[pistol pete]

Sounds like you got a good project there
I did similar with my mk1 putting a 3sgte in it
Have a look in members profile at my thread as I rebuilt that engine
I never done it before and jumped in deep end
Glad I did and I loved doing it
Give it a go
You learn loads just by stripping it down;)

[l1ca]

Tuned into this thread, hopefully some more of the knowledgeable guys on here get pursuing, this is exactly the kind if thread I need to attempt my own... Pics pics pics as your doing it.

Good luck and kudos for having the man berries to attempt something like this with, what it sounds like basic knowledge at best.

I'll be keeping an eye on this!

[planted1]

I'd think long and hard before fitting the Ally crank pulley.

[Peter Gidden]

I've had a friend (experienced jap specialist mechanic) quote me £150 if I provide all the parts

For 20-30 hours work? That's impressive!

[CalMac]

PistolPete I've just read your whole build thread - that's incredible!! Reassuring to know that someone with as many questions as myself managed to figure it out. Fancy coming to help me?

He's a top bloke Peter! To be honest I'd rather do it all myself though, until it gets to the loom. That doesn't sound like fun.. I'll have to give you a call soon, as you can see there's now a lot to discuss

So far all I've managed to do was get it from Tottenham to Northampton in one piece and wreck my favourite jeans.. This things weighs an absolute tonne!



I've had a look on the side of the turbo and it doesn't have any markings. Is this normal for a CT20B?

Is there something I don't know about the ali crank pulley? Just bought it a few months back thinking it would fit my NA so thought I may as well use it lol

[Peter Gidden]

CT20 isn't marked, so that is correct.

Aluminium pulleys don't include a damper which is there to counter high frequency crank resonances.

Some people don't like them, others do.

[CalMac]

So how would those resonances affect the driver then - are we talking high-pitched whining noise or vibrations?

[Peter Gidden]

So how would those resonances affect the driver then - are we talking high-pitched whining noise or vibrations?

They don't affect the driver - they can affect the engine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_balancer

[jon_st205]

If going the alloy pulley route then you really should get the whole rotating assembly (including the flywheel & clutch) balanced.

[CalMac]

So they require a lot of work to fit properly then..

Is there any great benefit in going through all the effort of balancing and lightening components then adjusting timing to fit this crank pulley?

[bobhatton]

So how would those resonances affect the driver then - are we talking high-pitched whining noise or vibrations?

The crank will snap in two

[Shmed]

I had my entire rotating assembly balanced, including the alloy crank pulley, but then decided to believe the forum and never used the alloy pulley, electing to fit a stock pulley with the damper. My crank is still in one piece, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's true.

From memory, it was suggested that balancing the assembly doesn't solve the issue as the pulley damper is supposed to damp the twisting of the crank. Might have got that confused as it's been a while.

Shameless tout for a sale, but have you considered buying my head? It has Piper cams, cam gears and Piper valve springs, and is proven to 400HP.

I'm also flogging a Radtec Chargecooler and a full GT3076r with custom 3" downpipe with barely any miles on it (I bout it new and have only done 1k on it, with 800 or so of them being bedding in miles (with little boost).

I'll leave the sales pitch now, and wish you luck. It's fun doing it yourself, but it can be very costly....

[CalMac]

Right I'm selling the alloy crank pulley then I'll probably get the crank balanced and aftermarket flywheel anyway as I can see that they ought to help in their own right.

How did all these clever engine blokes discover things like harmonic balance, let alone how compressing fuel and air then lighting it to make power entered their heads in the first place!

[Shmed]

Here's a quick dump from what I picked up during my build. Note that I'm not a mechanic, just an enthusiast (who has built his own car and made 402HP @1.2 bar). There are plenty of people on here with far more experience and hopefully they'll help you out along the way too.


Intercooler upgrade Definitely required to uprate from stock, though you haven't specified your goal - without forging the forum suggests 350HP is the limit iirc
Rad upgrade I wouldn't bother

Balanced crank Use the crank in the block. If you're not replacing the rods/pistons then is balancing the assembly necessary? Also, if you go to that much effort, you might as well forge.
Aftermarket cams Probably not required, but nice if you like to rev
Adjustable cam pulleys as above
Balanced aluminium crank pulley (already purchased)
Aftermarket valve springs speak to the cam supplier. High lift cams certainly benefit from 'snappier' valve springs. Piper advised me on the best spring for their cam (surprisingly, it was a Piper product
Would the valves themselves need upgrading? The name Ferrea rings a bell 1mm oversize valves are the Ferreas you talk of. I didn't do it, was advised it's not worth it unless you recut the valve seats
Port and polish head

Exhaust I'd like to fabricate myself, 2.5" or 3"? De-cat. Will probably get hold of a nice hefty 2.5mm m/steel race manifold though as that may be too much of a challenge to make. Equal or non-equal length runners?

Aftermarket ECU/piggback - Link or Power FC seem to be the most commonly used Ihave a PFC for sale
Fuel cut defencer not required with PFC
Aftermarket boost gauge and boost controller (Apexi PFC commander unit is a boost controller right? Or have I got that completely wrong) PFC can do boost control, but it's fairly crap at it. Get AVCR or Blitz or a.n.other branded EBC (I'm selling an AVCR...

Colder plugs (these help to prevent detonation am I correct?)
???cc injectors? Seen all sorts of injector threads and still haven't a clue. I have 800cc's, good for over 400HP Obviously they're required to maintain the higher power resulting from all this work by providing more fuel Don't forget uprated fuel pump. Lots use Walbro 255lp/h in tank (that's all I used with stock rev 3 rail and FPR)
NGK plug wires Stock Toyota leads are fine

ACL bearings? If you're forging, yes
ARP headstuds, flywheel bolts Why not

Aftermarket clutch - not a clue here OS Giken, I have one for sale
Lighter flywheel Comes with the OS Giken above...

Air intake in sealed aluminium box (these are fun to make!)I always wanted to do that. Not necessary, but probably beneficial

Bigger turbo..? Gt30? Yes, Yes!!! (IMHO)Are the wastegate and turbine housing upgradeable parts? Upgrading the turbo will include the turbo housings unless you go for a hybrid, which might do if you don't forge. Tial are the most common external wastegate
Aftermarket BOV Personal preference


I guess the next step would be forged pistons and rods which just permit you to achieve silly power levels safely but that may be a bit ambitious for now, even though this lot ain't gonna be cheap as it is. As mentioned above, if you don't forge, you put a limit on your power. Depends on the depth of your pockets...

What I'm really after is a street driven weekend car, although maybe I'll have the urge to go tracking one day long ahead in the future! I really love the lumpy idle sound, which from what I can tell is achieved by messing with the timing and going for lairy-ass cams?


Any recommendations on parts to go for, or reading material to bury myself in for a few weeks?Buy all of the bits from my car

[CalMac]

See you've already saved me a couple of thousand just with your experience! thanks pal

You've got some maaaaad kit for sale

[sarkaria]

Guys I hope i am posting in the right thread as i am new out here. I am also involved in a similar project and hope to receive a lot of help from the seniors out here. Well my current situation is such that i was able to get me hands on a 94 MR2 which originally was supposed to have the 3sge engine. It is badged as a glimited and the engine hood states that therre was a 3sge in place. When i bought the car the engine was missing while all other components were in place. I somehow managed to buy a JDM half cut MR2 from Malaysia with a rev 3 engine which i believe is 245hp. The engine came with all the peripherals including the wiring loom and ECU for the rear end. The wiring loom has been cut just before the rear firewall. I was wondering if any off you can help me rewire the new loom into the old 3sge loom.

Also wanted to know if there is a marked difference between the two wiring looms and how i can integrate the new engine with the old wiring.

Any help will be highly appreciated....

[Peter Gidden]

Guys I hope i am posting in the right thread as i am new out here. I am also involved in a similar project and hope to receive a lot of help from the seniors out here. Well my current situation is such that i was able to get me hands on a 94 MR2 which originally was supposed to have the 3sge engine. It is badged as a glimited and the engine hood states that therre was a 3sge in place. When i bought the car the engine was missing while all other components were in place. I somehow managed to buy a JDM half cut MR2 from Malaysia with a rev 3 engine which i believe is 245hp. The engine came with all the peripherals including the wiring loom and ECU for the rear end. The wiring loom has been cut just before the rear firewall. I was wondering if any off you can help me rewire the new loom into the old 3sge loom.

Also wanted to know if there is a marked difference between the two wiring looms and how i can integrate the new engine with the old wiring.

Any help will be highly appreciated....

Fit the engine. Plug the two white plugs into the fuse box, and PM me. I'll help you through the stages:

Coil, ignitor and fuel pump have power
Battery and oil lights lit with ignition on
Engine cranks
Engine fires
Engine stays running

Each stage may involve some wiring, or may not. Different conversion require different wiring mods. Don't worry, it isn't too difficult.

[sarkaria]

Guys I hope i am posting in the right thread as i am new out here. I am also involved in a similar project and hope to receive a lot of help from the seniors out here. Well my current situation is such that i was able to get me hands on a 94 MR2 which originally was supposed to have the 3sge engine. It is badged as a glimited and the engine hood states that therre was a 3sge in place. When i bought the car the engine was missing while all other components were in place. I somehow managed to buy a JDM half cut MR2 from Malaysia with a rev 3 engine which i believe is 245hp. The engine came with all the peripherals including the wiring loom and ECU for the rear end. The wiring loom has been cut just before the rear firewall. I was wondering if any off you can help me rewire the new loom into the old 3sge loom.

Also wanted to know if there is a marked difference between the two wiring looms and how i can integrate the new engine with the old wiring.

Any help will be highly appreciated....

Fit the engine. Plug the two white plugs into the fuse box, and PM me. I'll help you through the stages:

Coil, ignitor and fuel pump have power
Battery and oil lights lit with ignition on
Engine cranks
Engine fires
Engine stays running

Each stage may involve some wiring, or may not. Different conversion require different wiring mods. Don't worry, it isn't too difficult.

Peter really appreciate your reply. I am doing a complete ground up restoration and should be in place to start the engine mounting and wiring by the middle of January. I will definitely be seeking you out for your help..

[RyanRs]

Dont bother porting the head neither, totally unneeded unless your aiming 750bhp + This is also the point where you would be looking at 1mm os valves, so the porting would complement the larger valve size.

Poilshing the exhaust side may be worth it, ive done it but tbh after a few miles i can only imagine they get coked up with soot again so im not sure if its really worth doing. Do port match the manifolds to the head and turbo tho, this is worth doing imo.