[Mk2] [Turbo] Advice wanted on tuning/mapping a Rev 2 Turbo

[Danbob]

I could do with some advice on tuning a Rev 2 engine.

I have searched and can’t find anything useful in the knowledge base other than the MRcontrols power primer, would like a second opinion

I am building this car to a tight budget, and aim to achieve 265hp at the Wheels.

As it will stand when back on the road the spec will be:

Rev 2 3S-GTE, Rebuilt 20,000 miles ago (Standard Internals)
Fuel cut defender
CT26 Turbo
3” Aussie Performance Decat/Downpipe
3” Twin Exhaust
Blitz Induction Kit,
4” Core Side Mount intercooler with shroud etc.
HKS EVC 3 Boost Controller

Current plan is to go to Tuning Developments and have an Emanage Blue fitted and mapped for around £550




Questions I have are:

Is an uprated fuel pump and/or bigger injectors required to achieve that power.

Is there any way I can check if a Rev 3 head gasket was fitted when the engine was rebuilt?

Has anyone else had a Rev ½ mapped with Tuning developments here?

Do you think my target is achievable/will be reliable with components fitted

Cheers

Dan

[Danbob]

I've read this post
http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

But most of it seems to just be an argument lol, and I wasn't planning on swapping to Rev 3 sensors, I already have enough work to finish and the car has to be ready for beginning of May (I only have a couple of hours a week to work on it)

Cheers

Dan

[bobhatton]

You do not need an ECU, that will not give you any more power.
Fit a CT20b turbo, run high octane fuel and 1.5 bar boost and you will have around 300/325 hp at the flywheel

[Danbob]

You do not need an ECU, that will not give you any more power.
Fit a CT20b turbo, run high octane fuel and 1.5 bar boost and you will have around 300/325 hp at the flywheel


Thanks Bob, I don’t think running higher than pump octane fuel is really an option for me though as the car will be used regularly on the road over the summer months as well as being tracked.

It seems the general consensus based on replies I’ve had elsewhere that a CT20B is a necessity. I’m not sure I have time now to finish the rest of the work and start taking off manifolds etc. on top of that but I could maybe consider it.


I haven’t fitted my decat pipe yet so I suppose I could change the turbo while working in that area. I was reluctant to change my turbo due to it being in such good condition (It was also claimed by the previous owner to be a stage 1 Turbo technics hybrid turbo, but I cannot confirm as the actuator bracket was missing when I got it and apparently that is where TT put there sticker)


How much can a good condition CT20B be picked up for? Is the CT20B still a twin scroll turbo? I like the current characteristics of the CT26, there is very little lag. Can the existing exhaust mani be retained?

[Danbob]

To put the question another way, if I go ahead and get the car mapped with CT26, 3” downpipe exhaust, intercooler etc. etc. at 16PSI, what power will the Rev 2 make? Surely mapping will have some benefit as the stock ecu will run richer than is optimum.

Thanks

[bobhatton]

To put the question another way, if I go ahead and get the car mapped with CT26, 3” downpipe exhaust, intercooler etc. etc. at 16PSI, what power will the Rev 2 make? Surely mapping will have some benefit as the stock ecu will run richer than is optimum.

Thanks

Toyota will have spent far more money then you and I will ever have to design their ECU and set it up for road use, so do you think £500 spent will do anything better?
The engine needs to run rich to cool the charge to stop knock.
If you fitted lower compression pistons then you could change things but with a stock engine and road fuel stick to the stock ECU

[Danbob]

Thanks for the response, not sure if I agree with it though. Toyota set up that ecu for a car running no more than 12PSI boost with stock exhaust and intercooler and which had to run richer than optimum to enable the catalytic converter to work efficiently. None of these criteria apply to my vehicle anymore. I appreciate knock needs to be avoided, but I think stock ECU sets injector duty to 100% over 12PSI, which is a bit overkill.

Has anybody actually done this with a CT26? And has the results to show?

Alternatively if CT20B is the way to go, does anyone have one for sale? And is anybody running a CT20B with Rev 2 injectors, MAF, ECU etc. successfully?


Thanks

Dan

[bobhatton]

And is anybody running a CT20B with Rev 2 injectors, MAF, ECU etc. successfully?
Dan

Yes on my sprint car with 1.5 bar boost and keeping up with 450hp 4 wheel drive cars.

I do not know where this " ECU sets injector duty to 100% over 12PSI," comes from, seen it a number of times but no prof its right.

The A/F ratio is around 10.5 when on 1.2 bar boost, just right for a turbo engine so not rich at all

[Danbob]

OK so based on this info the most sensible and cost effective solution is to find a CT20B and keep everything else the same, maybe change the fuel pump for piece of mind, up the boost to 1.2 bar and get the fuelling checked?


That should cost maybe £300 all in and potentially yield better results than the remap.

Sound about right?

[Danbob]

Bob are you running standard Rev 2 pistons, or lower compression ones?

Have you ever ran your car with that setup on 99 Ron running 1.2 bar?
Any sign of knock at that boost?

[bobhatton]

Bob are you running standard Rev 2 pistons, or lower compression ones?

Have you ever ran your car with that setup on 99 Ron running 1.2 bar?
Any sign of knock at that boost?

Everything is stock, but 110 octane fuel.

Every engine is going to knock on 99Ron and 1.2 bar boost, you have to hope the ECU keeps it under control but the power does drop off

[the bear1986]

If you don't mind me asking where do u get 110ron as the best I've seen is 102 at the ring

[bobhatton]

If you don't mind me asking where do u get 110ron as the best I've seen is 102 at the ring

It is a US racing fuel sold by a number of places over here. I can find you a contact if you want some.

[tubby_tony]

I was running a standard ecu with Apexi AVCR set at 1.2 bar and saw injectors at 99-100%. I still see 98% with the PowerFC at 1.3 bar but that is a safe map of 10.5 AFR on WOT. OOps, forgot you are on about rev2 with CT26 and smaller injectors. sorry.

However, I tend to agree with Bob as I see other rev3's with similar mods to my car, running the same boost and producing very similar bhp figures and they are using std ecu. I think the standalone ECU is not really required until you start putting a bigger turbo and injectors in place. I dont think a piggy back ECU is going to give your setup a big jump in BHP.

[Gaz]

What's the general going rate for a good condition CT20b?

[Harold]

What's the general going rate for a good condition CT20b?

Anywhere from £200-300.

[Danbob]

Yeah I've been offered them for around £300


I checked the headgasket yesterday and it appears not to have been changed for a MLS one


So as I definately do not have time to be changing the head gasket before the car is on the road I am abandoning the 300FWhp goal for now.

Going to be running CT26 Turbo technics 'hybrid' (Different compressor wheel, standard turbine)
3" Downpipe, 3" exhaust, Decat, 4" core intercooler, Blitz filter (with airbox if I get time) and 16PSI boost, and that will have to do me for now!

If I get it dyno'd I'll let you all know what that combination achieves

[Craig_'2]

Do not run your car at 1.5 bar on a stock engine, you'll blow it up! Besides a CT20b isn't any good after 1.2 bar unless it has updated internals.

If your making 300-325bhp on 1.5 bar then that's pretty poor to be honest - a Rev 3 will make this on 1.2 bar fair easily.

Fit a CT20b, do a rev 3 conversion (injectors, headgasket & ECU) then you can run 1.2 bar safely. The Rev 3 has proper fuelling maps upto 1.2 bar so it can cope with the inreade without needing an aftermarket unit. The Rev 2 injectors are maxed out at 1 bar on a CT20b, also check the condition of your fuel pump, if its worn out you'll need to replace it before upping the boost as you don't want to run lean.

[Danbob]

I'm not planning on running anwhere near 1.5 bar lol I said 16PSI

[Craig_'2]

I'm not planning on running anwhere near 1.5 bar lol I said 16PSI

Don't worry I'm aware of that

It was when someone suggested 1.5 bar was a good idea