[Mk2] [NA] N/A Rev 1-2 ECU/Piggyback advice

[CalMac]

I've been waiting an eternity to finally nab this 3SGE motor off my tutor at college - long story short he donated it to the mechanics dept. at college for the kids to work on etc. although they have only just got around to dismantling the car this week, and I've offered to donate my engine in return if they don't want it then perhaps somebody on here will?

It's done half the mileage of mine, and has been fitted with high-lift cams, uprated valve springs and the all-important shim modification - all with Toyota receipts, so I'm guessing bloody expensive TRD parts?! Knowing him there's probably some other bits he splashed out on too

I figure to get the most out of this engine (as well as fully heatwrapped Japspeed mani w/heatshield and midpipe/decat and Blitz Nurspec, and Apexi power filter with self-fabricated heat shield) I ought to have it remapped

ANYWAY - I got quite involved in my remapping research a few months ago and found that basically it comes down to Apexi Power FC, Greddy E-manage and Dastek Unichip. Does anybody have any experience with these - any to recommend in particular?

And then how do I go about getting it installed? I understand they're semi plug-and-play, in that they need to be professionally tweaked once fitted - how much is this likely to cost me? Will an installer even want to install a product not supplied by themselves?

Thanks for reading, any guidance would be brilliant Calum

[Peter Gidden]

Unichip needs dealer software to program.
E-Manage is OK for a piggyback.
PowerFC is good aftermarket ECU.

Don't expect any big gains - the 3S-GE is a well tuned engine OEM. But an interesting excercise.

[CalMac]

Ok, is the going rate for the Power FC usually about £800? Sounds a lot for a used circuit board and a few wires

Just to confirm- Emanage and Unichip are piggyback, Apexi is standalone?

I've found an emanage shipped from Australia on ebay for c. £300 - is this pretty much what I'm after?


I understand that I'm not going to get huge gains, but as you say it's all experience With all of that including the ECU I'm guessing about 30bhp over stock?

[Peter Gidden]

Ok, is the going rate for the Power FC usually about £800? Sounds a lot for a used circuit board and a few wires

PowerFC nearer £600-£650 s/h. No longer made now so some robbers try for £800ish.

Just to confirm- Emanage and Unichip are piggyback, Apexi is standalone?

Correct.

I've found an emanage shipped from Australia on ebay for c. £300 - is this pretty much what I'm after?

Yep.

I'm guessing about 30bhp over stock?

Bit ambitious. BEAMS engine was 200bhp and used vvt to get that figure.

[CalMac]

Ok that's cleared a few things up

So which of the ECU's would you go with in my situation?

[Tsia]

So which of the ECU's would you go with in my situation?

Don't expect any big gains - the 3S-GE is a well tuned engine OEM. But an interesting excercise.

I think that's to say, it would be money better spent elsewhere. Perhaps on handling mods instead? Unless that is, you're determined to push the NA as far as it'll go?

[CalMac]

Well I just figured I might have gone past the point to which the stock ECU could adapt, so an aftermarket alternative may be tuned to get the most from the intake, exhaust and cams? I'd be happy with 10-15hp from the remap to be honest, I'd probably feel more satisfaction upon completion of the project (if said completion is ever achieved ).

I've already upgraded to a set of rev3 brakes and discs with Tom's braided hoses, refurbed JIC coilies (Gaz shocks) using 1.5deg camber bolts, Whiteline ARB's, and front and rear strut braces. Running out of things to mess about with now lol

Managed to get some 18" alloys but I'm on the lookout for a set of 17's now as they don't complement the car in my opinion.

I'd have just dropped a rev3 turbo in and be done with it but I'm 20 and I don't even want to try for an insurance quote on that

Is polishing/porting the intake likely to be a waste of time? I read somewhere that it flows very well as it is.. And wider bore throttle body - any thoughts?

There is always weight saving - but I want it to be a relatively comfortable street car, and I'm in the process of welding an aluminium subwoofer box to go behind the seats anyway so I can't see much of a result with that sort of compromise lol

Final question for tonight - any idea what was actually altered from rev1/2 158bhp to develop 176bhp in the rev3?

Thanks again for your patience in allowing me to pick your brains - it's very refreshing to finally be getting some answers from a forum!!

[Tsia]

The insurance is horrendous. I had to pay £3500 at 21, although I didn't have long as a driver, good move to stick with NA, sort of wished I'd done it myself at first.

Oh and for the rev 3 engine, I think it was cams, something with the exhaust and... er... can't remember! But it was offset by the weight, if I recall correctly.

[Peter Gidden]

Is polishing/porting the intake likely to be a waste of time? I read somewhere that it flows very well as it is.. And wider bore throttle body - any thoughts?

Both modifications will realise minimum gains, if anything at all.

Don't forget to declare all modifications before driving the car on the road. And be prepared to get shafted. Young drivers and modified cars don't mix well.

[Turbonoz]

Have you thought about a second-hand Link G3 ECU? Hands down better than the Power FC, which are good, but old technology and usually way overpriced for the 3S.

[CalMac]

haha bet you were the only one of your mates with a properly rapid car though at least a turbo swap is something to look forward to a couple years down the line!

I'll check out the Link G3, cheers!

Yep all mods declared they're after c. £1000 for insurance, which I didn't actually think was half bad?! My Ford KA was £2600 in my first year

[bobhatton]

I would keep the stock ECU to start with, its not going to give problems and will adjust to your mods

[Tedtiler]

We have a track na and are using a toms pre programmed ecu. Think it was developed when there was a mid 90s jdm race series. Not sure whether it would work on aftermarket cams but as a plug and play option it works for us.
Haven't found the rev limiter yet on it. Power tails off about 7500.

Found it on eBay, 300 quid.

[Tsia]

haha bet you were the only one of your mates with a properly rapid car though at least a turbo swap is something to look forward to a couple years down the line!

Haha, actually I wasn't! Truth of the matter is I couldn't stand having a slower car than one of my friends, who had a Celica GT4 (ST205) - as well as really, really wanting an excuse for a turbo

Jealousy reared its ugly head when he demonstrated it for the first time.

[dan4]

I would keep the stock ECU to start with, its not going to give problems and will adjust to your mods

I thought the ecu didnt affect WOT.....

Piggyback tuning will probably be best method although you will have to fight the stock ecu compensating. With stock injectors and map sensor this should be easy

[CalMac]

I've found a Unichip on ebay for next to nothing, and I'm tempted because of the price (£75 starting, £120 BIN).. From what you've said the Unichip is going to be a PITA to map though as I'll need to find a Dastek dealer who's willing to do it! The seller has had it mapped to his 300hp MR2 turbo apparently.

Listed under 'unichip piggyback ecu' it's the result with no picture (sorry I can't post links yet) - although i emailed the seller and he has since sent me a photo which seems to look ok. He claims that it has to be 'hard-wired' into the existing wiring loom, which is odd as I figured as a piggyback it would just be a single harness connection into the ECU!

I'm wary though - this price seems low even for the most basic of the remaps? Maybe I'm best to just wait and see if one of the other piggybacks come along on here or ebay.

[Peter Gidden]

I've found a Unichip on ebay for next to nothing, and I'm tempted because of the price (£75 starting, £120 BIN).. From what you've said the Unichip is going to be a PITA to map though as I'll need to find a Dastek dealer who's willing to do it! The seller has had it mapped to his 300hp MR2 turbo apparently.

Listed under 'unichip piggyback ecu' it's the result with no picture (sorry I can't post links yet) - although i emailed the seller and he has since sent me a photo which seems to look ok. He claims that it has to be 'hard-wired' into the existing wiring loom, which is odd as I figured as a piggyback it would just be a single harness connection into the ECU!

I'm wary though - this price seems low even for the most basic of the remaps? Maybe I'm best to just wait and see if one of the other piggybacks come along on here or ebay.

Unichip prices are low for a reason. I've got 3 or 4 in the workshop and they're worth next to nothing.

Unichips dealers wll tell you "it's an old one and can't be fitted/mapped". They want new business only. Beware.

In fact, if you really, really want one, i'll sell you one for £20 delivered. Came off Rev3 turbo.

[CalMac]

WOW. I can't really say no at that price

I'll PM you, again!

[RST]

In my oppinion forget unichip. I had one fitted a few years at their HQ and not ony was their chip rubbish but I didn't think their guys were up to much either. When they put everything back to normal I had to pull in 10 miles later as the car wouldn't even run. External mappers seem to do better with their devices than their own guys do but I tell you my experience is pretty common. Their HQ is pretty (or was) pretty rubbish, my oppinion of them culdn't be much lower.

A few years ago I was into tuning N/A (still am to some extent), piggyback is false economy, there's lots of systems which will do non-vvt-i 3s engines. Most of them start at not that much more than piggybacks. What you want to do is find a local mapper and go with what they are happy with also, unless you want to travel further -I used to travel 600 miles each way for my mapping, but I was very particular!

[CalMac]

RST - so you reckon I'm best to just take the car to a decent mapper and see which route they recommend? I have a friend who knows of reputable company not too far from me, so I'll try them