[Mk2] [Generic] Active Sub Woofer help...

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riot68
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[Mk2] [Generic] Active Sub Woofer help...

Post by riot68 »

Bought and Alpine Active sub from a member on here ages ago, however have just had time to fit it today and I am not impressed, get more bass from my front standard speakers. So question is did I do something wrong?

only 3 power cables, 12v to battery, ACC switch from head unit and ground to body, done all this and it powers up and switches itself off fine.

Only other plugs are 2 RCA's for the sound (red & white) that in the manual state they are the pre-outs from the head unit. My headunit (xtrons) doesn't have anything labled pre-out but has loads of outputs, there's a single RCA that's labled 'sub-woofer' tried that 1 into 2 and 1 into 1 (each side) and it sounds really distorted. only other outputs on the HU are 2 sets of RCA's (both red and white), one labled front speakers and the other rear, tried both and to be honest it sounds just as bad.

Some bass but not much and if you turn it up you just get a distored thumping with a crackle.

So did I do something wrong or does it sound like I was sold a dud?

This is the sub it's an Alpine SWD1600...

Image

Thanks for any help...
visual anarchy since 1990...

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madbasshunter
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Re: [Mk2] [Generic] Active Sub Woofer help...

Post by madbasshunter »

A quick google finds people complaining that the xtron pre outs are not very good ! The Alpine has the high level input option http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... c4Y1MuAP3w so you could try connecting it to high level (lose two speakers).
riot68
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Re: [Mk2] [Generic] Active Sub Woofer help...

Post by riot68 »

So do you think, splice in to the rear speaker cables and add new cables with RCA plugs on? Could I still run the rears too by just splitting the cable in to 2? Also had a thought that I ran the power and sound cables altogether, however wouldn't this just maybe give a hum not a total distortion?...
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madbasshunter
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Re: [Mk2] [Generic] Active Sub Woofer help...

Post by madbasshunter »

riot68 wrote:So do you think, splice in to the rear speaker cables and add new cables with RCA plugs on? Could I still run the rears too by just splitting the cable in to 2?


You can splice into the rear cables and fit the RCA's that came with the sub as they have hi to low level converters built in (if not you need to buy some) you could run the rear speakers as well after testing the speaker wires with the rca's connected with a multimeter and making sure the stereo still see 4ohms or higher per speaker wire (swap the spliced wires round if its lower and it will go higher).
I wouldnt worry about the cables being together just make sure you have GOOD earths.
Or you could fit one of theses http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... bv8Pbncgog which will boost your existing preouts by 9v but that depends if the preout sound is clear ?
riot68
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Re: [Mk2] [Generic] Active Sub Woofer help...

Post by riot68 »

Ok cool, have ordered to RCA plugs to solder in, will try without the rear speakers first then go from there, rears are tinny but give some nice treble, if it doesn't work out I'll just rip it back and do without it. That Vibe bass generator cost more than I paid for the Sub, thanks for the help...
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madbasshunter
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Re: [Mk2] [Generic] Active Sub Woofer help...

Post by madbasshunter »

riot68 wrote:Ok cool, have ordered to RCA plugs to solder in,


No dont solder rca plugs onto the speakers as the speaker outputs are to high you need something like http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... mGs464XI6Q
mrfil13
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Re: [Mk2] [Generic] Active Sub Woofer help...

Post by mrfil13 »

I have one of these and there's a lot if bass for a small unit. For you have a headphone to Rca lead so you can plug in something like your phone and play music to test rules out your headunit.

At a guess though I would have a good look at the power and ground, had a similar issue a long tines ago it was the power cables.
nick200
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Re: [Mk2] [Generic] Active Sub Woofer help...

Post by nick200 »

Ok some thoughts:

1- The SW1600 a well regarded under seat compact active sub. However it is
a compact unit and it can not be expected to perform aswell as a full size boxed
8/10/12inch sub + amp. It is simply not possible to get the same low frequency extension
and amplitude from a compact version.
That said, it provided considerable extra bass to the stock mr2 speaker system.

The mr2 is not a quiet car and most of us have louder exhausts, so expect to loose
a fair amount of extra bass when driving since road noise & exhaust boom is in the
same frequency range.

So considering the above, lets look at the active sub input connections.

HI_LEVEL inputs are designed to be connected to the speakers themselves, voltage
here can approach battery volts. Advantage - you can use these inputs on any system
since you are connecting directly to the loudspeakers themselves, disadvantage - since
you are connecting after the amplifier you potentially loose quality through the HU main amp.
Also any tone control you set will appear on the HI_level which you dont want since can overdrive.

LO_LEVEL / RCA / Phono are designed to be connected before the main amp on the HU hence
maximum signal quality. Typically a MAXIMUM of 1v ( ish) So you need to be careful where you
plug these in, just trying each jack not really advised - your HU may have non standard output levels ?

Onto practical suggestions:

A. Turn all BASS settings to flat- 0. Turn loudness OFF
With bass cranked up and loudness on from the HU, its possible this is overdriving the input to the sub and the
crackle you hear is clipping.

B. On your head unit, there is likely to be a menu option to set OUTPUT LEVEL on SUB and PRE-AMP outputs.
Set these mid way ( not maximum - this is likely to clip the volume )
Its always best to start at the lower levels and gradually raise the levels before any distortion or clipping occurs.
Again on the sub itself start low on GAIN and gradually increase the level and throttle back if you hear distortion.

C. There is a L & R input to the sub, if you only connect one connection you may only get 1/2 amplitude or less. You need
both(L+R) connected. ( But do not connect HI and LO level inputs simulataneously )
If you use HI-level inputs and accidently reverse one set of connections, you will loose nearly all bass since one channel will
cancel out the other one.

D. Battery positive lead - does this run via a fuse to the battery + itself ? If you are connecting off something else this
may not be full battery volts and hence may not supply the current needed.

E. Ground lead - the same, is this a good connection to chassis ground. Ideally short as possible with a good clean
metal to metal chassis connection.
*NOTE - the unit will turn on and off fine with poor connections, you will only see the effect when current is drawn ( ie bass )

F. Battery ok and fully charged ?

G. DSP settings, does your HU have any DSP settings ? Some units reduce bass to the front speakers so your L + R pre amp outs
may be not getting the full signal.
Check any other settings like ROCK/POP/CONCERT etc.. are set OFF


Hope some of these suggestions help, you were not sold a dud - just there are many factors to consider when you install something like this.

Regards
riot68
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Re: [Mk2] [Generic] Active Sub Woofer help...

Post by riot68 »

Thanks for all the help, few points in answer...

My next step was to try plugging the ipod in directly to rule out the headunit etc.

BTW what's wrong with splicing in to the speaker cables with RCA plugs, have seen folks do this on fitting tutorials for other cars and it show it like that in the actual manual.

I will also check the ground and make a new connection, the power is fused and goes directly to the battery.

I understand that it won't be as good as a full size sub however it's not really putting anything out at all, apart from a fart noise when it's turned up to the top, I am getting a lot more bass from the front standard £20 speakers. This is also true when the car isn't even running.

Have everything on the HU set to middle, zero or standard etc. so can't be that, on a side note the xtrons defaults to factory setting every time including the clock so don't know what's up there, guy who fitted it said the back up battery inside must be knackered, not a big deal just annoying.

Battery is a band new Bosch 4 year and is fully charged too.

So will try direct ipod fitment and renew the ground tomorrow and report back, fingers crossed it's the ground...
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nick200
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Re: [Mk2] [Generic] Active Sub Woofer help...

Post by nick200 »

BTW what's wrong with splicing in to the speaker cables with RCA plugs, have seen folks do this on fitting tutorials for other cars and it show it like that in the actual manual.

I see your point, looking at the Alpine sub manual it shows the RCA connectors used
for HI and LO level inputs. All i can assume is that it relies on the user massivly adjusting the gain between using proprer RCA outputs and connecting the speakers themselves.

Its not a good connection method of Alpine though, since it is quite simply RCA are pre-amp output levels and speaker connection levels are the amplified version.

Maybe other internet tutorials have done it, they've just the gain turned right down on the sub amp if they have connected to the speaker levels via a RCA style input.


For reference i used RCA levels from a Becker sub out, and volume set to about 60% on the sub itself. I didnt appreciate the sub hadnt got seperate HI-level inputs which is why i waffling on about them before !


EDIT - just to add, if you have a convient hifi separates CD player - you can
run phono's from that just to test a separate source.
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Re: [Mk2] [Generic] Active Sub Woofer help...

Post by toxo »

riot68 wrote:Have everything on the HU set to middle, zero or standard etc. so can't be that, on a side note the xtrons defaults to factory setting every time including the clock so don't know what's up there, guy who fitted it said the back up battery inside must be knackered, not a big deal just annoying.


Your yellow and red wires are not connected right in your ISO harness. Yellow should go to constant live (i.e. battery) and red should be ignition live (i.e. only on when the ignition is on).
IMOC-UK - the only club to win 'Best Club Stand' at JAE more than once, and twice in a row!
riot68
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Re: [Mk2] [Generic] Active Sub Woofer help...

Post by riot68 »

http://www.facebook.com/v/10151961422895024

This is the video I did today, has a new ground made and this is with the ipod plugged in to the RCA's from the headphone socket, sounds just the same so not the HU, guess I was sold a dud :( ...
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riot68
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Re: [Mk2] [Generic] Active Sub Woofer help...

Post by riot68 »

nick200 wrote:BTW what's wrong with splicing in to the speaker cables with RCA plugs, have seen folks do this on fitting tutorials for other cars and it show it like that in the actual manual.

I see your point, looking at the Alpine sub manual it shows the RCA connectors used
for HI and LO level inputs. All i can assume is that it relies on the user massivly adjusting the gain between using proprer RCA outputs and connecting the speakers themselves.

Its not a good connection method of Alpine though, since it is quite simply RCA are pre-amp output levels and speaker connection levels are the amplified version.

Maybe other internet tutorials have done it, they've just the gain turned right down on the sub amp if they have connected to the speaker levels via a RCA style input.


For reference i used RCA levels from a Becker sub out, and volume set to about 60% on the sub itself. I didnt appreciate the sub hadnt got seperate HI-level inputs which is why i waffling on about them before !


EDIT - just to add, if you have a convient hifi separates CD player - you can
run phono's from that just to test a separate source.


Thanks for the help, just checked back and it was you that I bought this from...
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nick200
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Re: [Mk2] [Generic] Active Sub Woofer help...

Post by nick200 »

That's why I helped.

It came out of my car working after barely hours being used.

Is it likely I would sell something duff after being on this forum for over 5 years ?

You sound like you've made up your mind it's broken anyway.

How do you know it hasnt been damaged by just randomly plugging in leads like you've described ?

So just return it , I'm an electronics engineer by trade so will test it for you on the bench and if it's faulty I apologize and will refund your money. all I can say is it was working upon removal from the car. What more could I do ?

If it works when I test it you have the option to pay return postage and have it back.
riot68
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Re: [Mk2] [Generic] Active Sub Woofer help...

Post by riot68 »

Didn't mean to cause any upset, didn't realise it was you until the last post when I checked back through my feedback.

I have decided that it most likely broken as I've tried everything and it doesn't work, a friend who is a sound engineer, not car stuff but still, said it sounds like it's broken.

As for randomly pluggin stuff in, I haven't done anything of the sort, I wired the power to the batters, the earth to the car, the switched to the ACC on the HU and I pluged the RCA pre-outs from the HU into the RCA's on the unit, that's all. Only today did i re-earth it and then plug RCA's from the headphone socket of the iPod in to the Sub RCA's. I don't know what else to try.

Were you able to watch the video?

until the other day when I fitted it, it's just been sat in a box wrapped in bubble wrap. I'm happy to try something else if there are any suggestions?...
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nick200
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Re: [Mk2] [Generic] Active Sub Woofer help...

Post by nick200 »

I may have many faults but deliberately selling something faulty is not one of them, but let's move on and get it sorted.

Due to the joys of iphones i cant see the video but can view it tmrw at work.

Do you have access to a voltmeter ? If so can you measure across the power+ to Ground at the sub connector - with the unit on.

Also just as a trial connect the sub remote on/off directly to battery volts In case the hu is giving some other voltage.

So just to clarify the obvious but can you confirm the power light comes on and the unit illliminates blue ? Thx

Do you have any other phono out type sources, like a separates cd player ? It would be a usefull check rather than any adapter type thing which may have its own foibles

I am sorry it hasn't worked straight away for you my offer still stands to return it,
madbasshunter
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Re: [Mk2] [Generic] Active Sub Woofer help...

Post by madbasshunter »

nick200 wrote:BTW what's wrong with splicing in to the speaker cables with RCA plugs, have seen folks do this on fitting tutorials for other cars and it show it like that in the actual manual.


The RCA plugs that come with it from Alpine have low level convertors in the wire like the ones I put a link up to.
riot68
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Re: [Mk2] [Generic] Active Sub Woofer help...

Post by riot68 »

Ok, thanks for the offer, I was surprised when I saw it was you, hadn't realised before. As you've been on for ages etc. So didn't think you sent a dud kn purpose etc. anywa will have a play about at the weekend. Have a seperates cd player I can try and will measure the voltage with the multimeter.

Would it be worth taking out connecting to my spare car battery and trying it? Just annoyed as spent ages soldering and heat shrinking everything and then hiding all the cables.

Cheers...
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riot68
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Re: [Mk2] [Generic] Active Sub Woofer help...

Post by riot68 »

And yes all powers up fine when you switch the hu on, amd it lights up blue...
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nick200
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Re: [Mk2] [Generic] Active Sub Woofer help...

Post by nick200 »

riot68 wrote:Ok, thanks for the offer, I was surprised when I saw it was you, hadn't realised before. As you've been on for ages etc. So didn't think you sent a dud kn purpose etc. anywa will have a play about at the weekend. Have a seperates cd player I can try and will measure the voltage with the multimeter.

Would it be worth taking out connecting to my spare car battery and trying it? Just annoyed as spent ages soldering and heat shrinking everything and then hiding all the cables.

Cheers...


yes i think it will be easier to fault find out of the car onto your spare battery.

Its unlikely, but try a different phono connecting cable too.

The only other thing i can think is something inside the sub has shaken loose in transit, unlikely again since its designed for car use - hence lots of vibration normally.

let me know how it goes. cheers Nick
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