[Mk2] [Turbo] Maximum power on stock internals?

[Turbonoz]

Just wondering what the record for maximum power & torque is on a completely stock 3SGTE. Have there been many over the 400bhp mark? I'm guessing there are a few Stateside but everyone knows UK horsepower is better

Edit: Stock internals, no restrictions on fueling/management etc

[Peter Gidden]

Have there been many over the 400bhp mark?

Stock engine, stock fuel.

I doubt there will have been any.

[craig]

Just wondering what the record for maximum power & torque is on a completely stock 3SGTE. Have there been many over the 400bhp mark? I'm guessing there are a few Stateside but everyone knows UK horsepower is better

On stock internals/injectors/ECU with solely bolt on mods and a boost increase?

I would say no more than 300bhp. 400bhp on a stock 3SGTE? No way!!

[Turbonoz]

Sorry, I meant an internally-stock 3SGTE engine. Obviously we're going to be needing healthy modifications in the air & fuel delivery and engine management department

I'm very much interested in pushing stock engines as far as possible. To stupid levels if possible. I don't have much luck with Toyotas truth be told

[Moo]

Technically speaking if you had the right turbo, ECU and fueling you could hit 400+hp with stock internals but it's gonna go boom in a very short period of time. Would probably let go on the dyno

On stock turbo, ecu, injectors and internals at 1.1 bar mine was making 313hp atf for years. I've seen a few other cars on here making closer to 320 atf at 1.2 bar with the same setup.

I'm soon to be running a bigger turbo, injectors and aftermarket ECU but sticking with standard internals for now. I've seen others go down this road and make around 350/360 on stock internals which is around where I'm hoping to be. How reliable this will be in the long run in anybody's guess but we'll see.

I'd say this is about as far as you could get on stock pistons with any hope of some reliability but probably only a matter of time before the ringlands let go.

[T.F.S.]

I am on circa 350bhp now and have been for the past year, stock engine and paper gasket, 95ron fuel.

Give it another year and I will get bored and up the boost some more.

[Moo]

I am on circa 350bhp now and have been for the past year, stock engine and paper gasket, 95ron fuel.

That's good to hear from my perspective. What's your setup?

[vtecpower]

I think from looking at other MR2 forums that rev1-2 is around 300-310 bhp

I think Gaz blew a ringland at 320 or 330 bhp on a rev1 tubby

And I think rev3+ are around 330-350 bhp mark

[vtecpower]

I am on circa 350bhp now and have been for the past year, stock engine and paper gasket, 95ron fuel.

That's good to hear from my perspective. What's your setup?

His secret is water meth kit

Glad to hear its still going strong I'm a bit of a scared cat and will do my steel hg upgrade before winding up the boost and fitting a ct20b

[T.F.S.]

I am on circa 350bhp now and have been for the past year, stock engine and paper gasket, 95ron fuel.

That's good to hear from my perspective. What's your setup?

Please see my build thread, search for "GT3071R progress"

Water injection is IMO the reason why I can get away with this...no det...

Boost does not kill headgaskets!

[Turbonoz]

It's definitely all about the IATs.

Well, I've had to look Stateside for inspiration: http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=322229

512.94hp & 428.58lbft (race gas)

stock 3s motor, with just cams in it.

homemade intake manifold.
12x24x4" tmic
q45 tb
powerfc
1k injectors, hux tffr, walboro 255, and -6 feed.
ats gt3082 kit
264's and ats cam gears..

those are the pertinent ones..


Update...

oddly enough, i think i could have possibly lifted the head now after looking back over loggs and stuff I wasn't 15:1 for very long.. and a log from earlier that week street tuning saw ~40psi.. ha. the head gasket fire rings all look good, just another "lifted head" possibility..

In fairness, any decent Jap 2L should breeze 400bhp if the tuning & mods are done correctly. Hell, I ran 380+ at the hubs on a stock 1.8 for ages and that was with a lazy Chinese turbo.

I'd have thought most ringland issues are due to the stock management. I've encountered det in the midrange & leaning out at the top end with the standard ECU & fuel rail on a CT26. The only time I've encountered ringland failure was in an RB26DETT, due to the stock fuel pump failing miserably to provde ample fueling for twin HKS 2510s

According to this site (click!), the crank is good for 800bhp, rods 700bhp, so it's just the pistons to consider. So far I've tuned for around 1.2 bar on the T78, IATs low at 25°C (700bhp I/C in the boot & 16" fan) and conservative timing. I have some forged pistons on standby, but I would like to see a genuine 450bhp and use it for the rest of the summer. The engine is old however and an unknown quantity, so a bit of luck will be needed

[tubby_tony]

Did Fensport not stick a std internal 3SGTE in a Corolla around 2005 and make 420bhp? Not sure how long it lasted though.

[greeny]

A quality engine management system and race fuel will go a LONG way to keeping a stock bottom end in one piece.

I think the piston ringlands collapsing would be the first thing to let go, purely just due to the cylinder pressures you'd be running.

It'd be interesting to stick my setup on a stock block and see how long it'd last.

What's the 1/4 record for a stock bottom end?

[Turbonoz]

I'll be heading to Santa Pod this weekend, but the weather's looking crap and I'm underprepared due to a dead water pump on Friday. I wouldn't be surprised if something else goes wrong, or the car is just underwhelming and gets broken for spares and I go back to a Nissan-only stable

I am surprised no one's really pushed the standard engine properly. Or maybe they have, and it just went pop. Suppose it doesn't really help that a large outlay for a standalone ECU is a requisite, at least for the time being.

Is T.F.S.'s car the highest proven stock 3SGTE in the UK at this moment in time then?

[T.F.S.]

If its not at the moment I would expect it will be when the boost is increased at the end of the summer, I would also expect it to be the highest output stock rev2 3SGTE right now (paper gasket)

Its not all about highest BHP though...if you look at my dyno figures compared to rev3 it seems I have 40lbft gains at 3000rpm compared to the rev3 charts I have seen...BHP sells engines but torque wins races

[bobhatton]

The thing that does all the damage in an engine is detonation.
It will break ring lands, pistons, blow head gaskets and crack blocks.
The only ways to stop detonation on a turbo engine is with low boost, low compression very effective intercooling or high octane fuel.
Water injection if fitted correctly will absorb heat in the combustion chamber to stop detonation but will lower power, it has no intercooling affect.

So to get to 400hp or more on stock internals you need high octane fuel, very effective intercooling, a correctly sized turbocharger so you are in the most efficient part of the map and a very good ECU.

[Turbonoz]

Yeah, all that's already in place

I was hoping someone would have experience of a 400+bhp internally-stock 3SGTE with all the requisite fueling/cooling/management modifications for as much reliability as possible at those levels. Other than the 512bhp on race fuel in the States, there's not a lot of info out there.

At what point are cams & headwork necessary to release more power? What's the standard Rev2 head capable of?

Well, the car's having its water pump, cambelt & rear pads done today, hopefully it will be good to go for the weekend. Glad my mate's got a unit outside Santa Pod

[T.F.S.]

Water injection if fitted correctly will absorb heat in the combustion chamber to stop detonation but will lower power, it has no intercooling affect..

I see you know very little about WI, as for it having no intercooler effect can you explain to me why my inlet temps are below 50c at the moment when I do not have any kind of chargecooler or intercooler?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEX08Fos ... e=youtu.be




BTW they hit 100c within seconds if I turn the WI off

[Turbonoz]

T.F.S., are you going to Japshow this weekend? Would be good to have a look at your car.

[T.F.S.]

Sorry mate I wont be attending this weekend...moar testing to be done I am afraid.

I take it Japshow is at Santa Pod?