Newbie - wanting to build a trackday mr2 on a budget

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frazman
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Newbie - wanting to build a trackday mr2 on a budget

Post by frazman »

Hi all great site. I have recently aquired a mk2 mr2 NA and have taken to an airfield track day and had a brilliant time. So i've got the bug.

Would like to get some advice from the experts. I took the car in completely standard trim and was suprised how well it handled/went. However when really pushing on i lost the back end a few times!

So i'm wanting to make soemthing that's resonably tasty without spending a fortune - max budget is 1 - 1.5 k. **Can anyone recommend the best £/gain modifcations i can do with my budget?? I'm looking at the following so far

1,So first plan is strip the car of some wieght- is there a 'how to guide' anywhere on what can be removed and how to do it?

2,Would like to get some upgraded suspension possibly coilover but not sure on a decent budget set up?

3,need some half decent rubber for the rears at least - have some nasty tyres on at present. Is it possible/advisable to put a lower profile on the rears? currently have standard wheels with 245 profile from memory

4, radiator - i took a stone impact to the radiator on the day and need to replace - any suggestions on a decent radiator (if this is a worthwhile area to spend) and a means of protecting the new radiator.

5, car got very hot going round - i'm not sure if the side vent fan are working or not - is there a way to test these? any other good cooling mods

6, brakes and/or just decent brake pads. Brake fluid upgrade?

7, exhaust system/ remove cat?

8, short shift kit or mod

9, harnesses and/or racing seat

10, finally i'd like to fit a smaller steering wheel but would have to sacrifice the airbags i asssume?

Does anyone know any good mechanics or enthusiasts who know there way round an mr2 in the south west?

Any other suggestiions advice greatly appreciated!

many thanks in advance fraz
alanmr2turbo
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Re: Newbie - wanting to build a trackday mr2 on a budget

Post by alanmr2turbo »

Tyres R888's street legal but a nightmare in the wet i have heard. Oh, don't expect a lot of miles out of them LOL

Upgrade the ARB's to Whitelines or similar (around £200)

Upgrade you bushes to polybushes (£100) How to is on here

Standard rad is ok for track days and you could out some grill mesh in front of it

short shifters (£25 on Ebay) Easy to fit. Again there's a how to on this on here somewhere

To test side fan just disconnect the little sensor on the engine lid. When disconnect the fan should be on full time. Another cooling mod they do is to put twin Spal fans on the engine lid to suck out the hot air. (Around £125-£200)

Decats can be a pain to do as the bolts on the N/A tend to rust up and become one with the bolts. The bottom nuts are easy to access but the top ones are a pain and usually you need to remove the exhaust to chop them off.

There is a guy on here selling bolt on brake upgrade to 4 pot calipers. his in the affiliates.
ashley
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Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:08 pm

Re: Newbie - wanting to build a trackday mr2 on a budget

Post by ashley »

frazman wrote:Hi all great site. I have recently aquired a mk2 mr2 NA and have taken to an airfield track day and had a brilliant time. So i've got the bug.

Would like to get some advice from the experts. I took the car in completely standard trim and was suprised how well it handled/went. However when really pushing on i lost the back end a few times!

So i'm wanting to make soemthing that's resonably tasty without spending a fortune - max budget is 1 - 1.5 k. **Can anyone recommend the best £/gain modifcations i can do with my budget?? I'm looking at the following so far

1,So first plan is strip the car of some wieght- is there a 'how to guide' anywhere on what can be removed and how to do it?


Best bet is to get as much weight out of the back end as possible, but depends how far you are prepared to go! I would suggest:
- skin the boot lid
- boot lock mechanism
- boot release
- all boot trim, carpet etc
- aerial & motor
- under boot heat shields
- lightweight exhaust if funds allow- the standard is HEAVY
- decat pipe

Engine:
- air conditioning
- bypass the heater pipes to the cabin
- bulk head in front of engine- sound deadening and heat shields

Interior of car:
- ALL trim
- sound deadening
- dashboard
- radio
- heater matrix
- heater controls
- pipes from hell
- air con ecu
- security system
- the rear bulk head is double / triple skinned- you can remove the interior skin, but it is useful to keep the strength for harness anchor points)

Doors:
- ALL trim
- electric window motors
- de-lock the doors
- side impact bars if you are fitting a roll cage with side bars
- you could go perspex with the windows

Frunk:
- ALL trim
- bonnet release and catch mechanism
- skin the bonnet (or use a fibre glass one if funds allow)- a lot of racers leave the bonnet as is, they have a minimum weight to keep to and the front end is a useful place to have weight)
- fog lights
- air con radiator
- one of the fans on the radiator (you don't need two)

frazman wrote:2,Would like to get some upgraded suspension possibly coilover but not sure on a decent budget set up?


On your budget you need to be looking second hand I reckon, so probably a case of whatever you can find...coilovers would be ideal, but beware of second hand items that may be leaking, or have shot top mounts.

Definately look at adjustable ARBs, you can then tweak how your car corners.
Definatley poly bush your suspension all round, and consider doing your front and rear engine mounts as well.
If funds allow consider a pair of adjustable front tension rods so you can adjust your castor angle.
After market upper strut braces are a good idea, but expensive...at the least make sure you have one of the rear cross braces.
Camber crash bolts are another very worthy, but cheap mod.

frazman wrote:3,need some half decent rubber for the rears at least - have some nasty tyres on at present. Is it possible/advisable to put a lower profile on the rears? currently have standard wheels with 245 profile from memory


R888's are ideal, but will blow your budget- they've become stupid expensive...if you are sticking with stock wheels, then I would stay with stock wheel size/ profiles.
If not then get the lightest 16 inch alloys you can find,, have a search on here for ideal offsets and widths...

frazman wrote:4, radiator - i took a stone impact to the radiator on the day and need to replace - any suggestions on a decent radiator (if this is a worthwhile area to spend) and a means of protecting the new radiator.


Standard rad is fine on an NA, you could go for a turbo radiator which I think is thicker, but you'd be carrying more weight in coolant.
Definately mesh the front grill- will protect your radiator when you go into the gravel!

frazman wrote:5, car got very hot going round - i'm not sure if the side vent fan are working or not - is there a way to test these? any other good cooling mods


If you unplug the engine bay temp sensor the fan should come on- easy test...
If your engine and cooling system are well serviced and good condition then heat management should not be an issue on an NA- I've never had any issues in my NA.

frazman wrote:6, brakes and/or just decent brake pads. Brake fluid upgrade?


Standard brakes are fine as long as they are in A1 condition, so fully inspect all calipers and slide pins, make sure they are not seized and service them frequently.
In my opinion (and it is subjective) stick with standard disc's, and use Carbotech pads.
Braided brake lines are a must, and replace your brake fluid with Super dot 4.

You can also remove the dust covers from the back of the hubs to increase air flow around the brakes, and you can run vents from the fron bumper where the fog lights were to duct air onto the front brakes.

frazman wrote:7, exhaust system/ remove cat?


As light as possible, but also capable of passing track noise limits. Definately use a decat, but keep your cat for MOT time.

frazman wrote:8, short shift kit or mod


Don't assume you need this- it can make gear changes harder...I would save this a mod for a later day, and concentrat on basics first.

frazman wrote:9, harnesses and/or racing seat


You will save weight with bucket seats, and makes you feel more 'at one' with the car.
In my opinion do not fit bucket seats and harnesses unless you have a roll cage though...I know's it's an extreme example, but if you do roll over and smash your roof in with no roll cage, a harness will prevent you ducking down out of the way.

I would stick with standard seats/ harnesses until you can afford a roll cage...

frazman wrote:10, finally i'd like to fit a smaller steering wheel but would have to sacrifice the airbags i asssume?


Agreed...but to be honest you don't really want an airbag in a dedicated track car with cage and harnesses anyway.

frazman wrote:Does anyone know any good mechanics or enthusiasts who know there way round an mr2 in the south west?


Have a search on here and make your own choice...don't run to the first guys you find, take note of other people's feedback for traders, and have a good look through the Affiliates and Trader feedback section on here.

Consider doing as much of it as you can yourself....have a read of my track car thread, I've had a ball doing the car myself, and have learnt loads in the process. It's incredibly rewarding tweaking your own car and feeling the difference it makes!
And feel free to ask any questions- you'll get loads of help on here...most importantly: enjoy!

:thumleft:
frazman
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Re: Newbie - wanting to build a trackday mr2 on a budget

Post by frazman »

Brilliant thanks very much for the comprehensive feedback -it's great to get pointers from those who have been there and done it. I've got to be the least mechanical/technical person - but i suppose practise makes perfect.

With regards to skinning - how does this work and i assume this is not a diy job! Also i quite like the idea of being able to get myself to and from the days in the
car - so how much do i need to keep on the car to remain road legal?

stupid question but if i'm removing bonnet, boot and engine compartment release then how do i secure/access these areas?
ashley
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Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:08 pm

Re: Newbie - wanting to build a trackday mr2 on a budget

Post by ashley »

Take a look at my build thread mate: I detailed most stuff I've done in there- skinning is easy, you remove the relevant part and remove all the webbing with a cutting disk. The trick with the bonnet is not taking the webbing of the very front- I took all mine off and now have to keep the front taped down otherwise it lifts at anything over 70mph :eye:

If you remove locks etc you need bonnet / boot pins to keep stuff closed :thumleft:
ashley
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Re: Newbie - wanting to build a trackday mr2 on a budget

Post by ashley »

frazman wrote:so how much do i need to keep on the car to remain road legal?


Sorry- missed this...

You need dials and switches, headlights, sidelights etc. You don't need front fog lights, or a dashboard.

I've not listed anything above that would fail an MOT for you- my car still passes with the exception of emmissions, which is why I've kept my cat for MOTs...
frazman
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Re: Newbie - wanting to build a trackday mr2 on a budget

Post by frazman »

cheers dude. Have been trawling your thread - very inspiring and a great write up - but I know I havent the technical know ability to do half the stuff you made look easy! ha

First job on the list and something i 'should' be able to do is to start stripping some the carpet and sound proofing. How easy are the seats to remove- any pointers on bolt locations etc also should the floor carpet just pull out by hand or is it bonded on?
frazman
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Re: Newbie - wanting to build a trackday mr2 on a budget

Post by frazman »

sorry was also going to ask about the rear cross brace - i assume this goes in the boot? where can i buy one? Do you think an uprated front strut is a worth while investment?

Also in terms of getting a garage to fit the arb and ploybushes all round - what would be an approximate or worse case scenario labour time? just trying to work out the finances!
ashley
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Re: Newbie - wanting to build a trackday mr2 on a budget

Post by ashley »

Carpet comes out dead easy mate, if you work your way around you'll work it out. Seat has 4 bolts holding it in- again: take a look and you'll work it out :thumleft:

The rear cross brace sits in a cross above the engine- they came as standard on the t-bars I think, have a look in the parts for sale section/ MR2's being broken- you'll find one for little cash, think I paid £15.

Not sure on price to fit polybushes and ARB's- you'll have to contact some of the MR2 specialists mate...

Where are you based? I'd be happy to help if you're local 8)
frazman
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Re: Newbie - wanting to build a trackday mr2 on a budget

Post by frazman »

thanks again buddy :thumleft: . I'm based in wiltshire
ashley
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Re: Newbie - wanting to build a trackday mr2 on a budget

Post by ashley »

Cool- I'm just north of Gloucester if you ever want a hand :thumleft:
frazman
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Re: Newbie - wanting to build a trackday mr2 on a budget

Post by frazman »

you have pm mate
Tomiam
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Re: Newbie - wanting to build a trackday mr2 on a budget

Post by Tomiam »

If you are going to remove the sound deadening (looks like tar) on the floor areas (its under the carpet) then dont make the mistake of trying to chisel it off bit by bit.
Just get a rubber mallet and whack the floor with it. The sound deadening is like ice and will break up and allow you to simply sweep it up. :)
Image
Keri-WMS
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Re: Newbie - wanting to build a trackday mr2 on a budget

Post by Keri-WMS »

frazman wrote: I'm looking at the following so far

1,So first plan is strip the car of some wieght- is there a 'how to guide' anywhere on what can be removed and how to do it?
..................
6, brakes and/or just decent brake pads. Brake fluid upgrade?


In answer to 1 & 6, one option is a WMS brake kit (saves 11.28kg over Rev 2> front brakes & improves braking), see affiliates: www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=140657
Last edited by Keri-WMS on Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Shmed
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Re: Newbie - wanting to build a trackday mr2 on a budget

Post by Shmed »

Shameless offer of parts to the OP.....

Ashman has given you so much info, I doubt I'll be able to provide anything more in advice, I do however have a spare cross brace from a rev 2 turbo. I also have a decat pipe, but I don't think that'll help you as it is from a turbo too.

:eye:
January 2014
..the only thing I can promise for sure is slow progress.

May 2015
just have this niggling thought that if I rip out the wiring, then the car will never get out of the garage again.

Still in the garage...
mr2_mat
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Location: Trackdays in the South and driving around Berkshire

Re: Newbie - wanting to build a trackday mr2 on a budget

Post by mr2_mat »

Just to add my opinion...

Suspension - If you are on a budget, I would suggest that coilovers are not going to provide the best 'bang per buck' - i.e. they will be expensive. You will be quite all right with a set of lower / stiffer springs on the standard shocks (unless your shocks are shot, of course, then it's a completely different matter!).

Also, It's not been mentioned, but one of the first mods you should be looking at should be an induction kit - The stock airbox/resonator configuration is very restrictive. This coupled with a lighter exhaust and de-cat is essential, IMHO.

Tyre choice is a somewhat emotive subject with most owner's clubs, and no more so on here! A few track day regulars use the R888's (myself included), but as has been mentioned already, the price for these is getting ridiculous, so some are starting to use other tyres (Although the choice is very restrictive in stock sizes). As for your query on sizes - The Stock sizes are 195/55/15 on the front and 225/50/15 on the rear. Some people up-size the fronts to 205/55/15, but whatever, you should really be aiming to have the rears 20-30mm wider than the fronts, to keep the car 'balanced'. As for rolling diameter, if you reduce this, there will be a number of impacts:
- Speedo will read a higher speed than actual speed (not a great problem on track, but can be a problem on the road, as you'll never know your true speed.
- Less sidewall means less available flex, this will have an impact on handling (some people would say a detrimental effect, especially with sticky track rubber, but this is personal preference).
- Slightly improved acceleration

I would echo the thoughts that the stock brake callipers and disks are perfectly fine for most track use, just upgrade the pads to EBC YellowStuff's or Carbotech's and you'll be fine.

Also, GET YOUR GEOMETRY SETUP DONE! At the very least get a 4-wheel alignment done at a tyre place. MR2's seem to be very susceptible to handling 'upsets' caused by incorrect geo setup. You can either go for stock geo setup, or have a hunt around as there are some other geo recommendations floating about.

Most other things have been covered above I think.
cvega666
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Re: Newbie - wanting to build a trackday mr2 on a budget

Post by cvega666 »

Note to affiliates; please offer services / products with a PM, not on threads, you've got your section for that :)

Bang for buck (IMHO):

Suspension : polybushes and Whiteline ARB's, full geometry setup, Tein springs and Yellow/black billies, perhaps a caliper bracket kit (cantfindausername), which re-uses the MR2 calipers, but on larger Supra discs. Braided lines to prevent any line swelling when brake fluid is close to max temp...

Induction kit ? .... please. It adds pretty much nothing, apart from the noise. Get a good panel filter and you're set.

Exhaust - decat will make it a bit better, backbox won't make a huge difference (again, noise and looks)

And then weight loss over anything else...
Current: 2007 Porsche Cayman S
Gone: '94 rev3 NA, '92 rev2 Turbo forged, '07 Civic Type-R
mr2_mat
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Location: Trackdays in the South and driving around Berkshire

Re: Newbie - wanting to build a trackday mr2 on a budget

Post by mr2_mat »

cvega666 wrote:Induction kit ? .... please. It adds pretty much nothing, apart from the noise. Get a good panel filter and you're set.


Agreed that an induction kit won't add many more horses on it's own. In fact, we all know that there isn't much that can be done to add much more power to an NA without major work... but coupled with a de-cat and a nice free-flowing exhaust, it all adds up to a small, but useful, rise in power.

Also, let's not forget that an induction kit will remove a bit of weight (have you seen all the resonator box and filter box gubbins there actually is on a standard setup?! :shock: ). Finally, removing the standard box will free up some empty space to allow for some additional air circulation around the engine compartment, thus cooling. It's not a lot perhaps, but it is a cheap, quick and easy mod.

And, yes, the noise is nice :D
Keri-WMS
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Re: Newbie - wanting to build a trackday mr2 on a budget

Post by Keri-WMS »

cvega666 wrote:Note to affiliates; please offer services / products with a PM, not on threads, you've got your section for that :)


Post edited to comply, rule 3.1 (e). :thumleft:
ashley
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Re: Newbie - wanting to build a trackday mr2 on a budget

Post by ashley »

I think it's worth changing the exhasut simply as a weight saving excercise- the stock back box is surprisingly heavy...not sure you get much in the way of bhp increase, but the noise is nice 8)
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