Coilover options?

[Touge_AW11]

I'm picking up a MK1B on Monday, and after being out of the MK1 scene for some time I was wondering what the better options were for adjustable coilovers? I'm not looking to spend much more than £500, so I'm assuming this puts me in the ball-park of Spax/Gaz? Are there others worth considering?

Cheers

[Jim-SR]

for £500 dont even bother, youll make the handling worse. if all you have is £500 then stretch that a bit and get a set of Koni Yellow inserts and springs. you dont need coilovers anyway, and unless youre going to spend proper money you wont get anything worth having (and the likes of BC Racing and D2 dont qualify as "worth having").

the best setup for road and track use is probably Koni inserts with Ground Control coilover sleeves. its proven and works well. if you need something more serious then due to the lack of quality suspension product for the AW11 now youd have to go custom and spend proper money.

[Touge_AW11]

Is the aftermarket for these cars that bad? What's wrong with the BC/D2 stuff? They're made in the same factory as the K-sport coilovers used on lots of other cars?

[BarronMR]

Is the aftermarket for these cars that bad? What's wrong with the BC/D2 stuff? They're made in the same factory as the K-sport coilovers used on lots of other cars?

If you want to have a look or a ride in a mk1 with the d2 coilovers, just drop me a pm. I don't live a million miles away and my mk1 has a set of d2 coilovers on.

[oukie]

Is the aftermarket for these cars that bad? What's wrong with the BC/D2 stuff? They're made in the same factory as the K-sport coilovers used on lots of other cars?

UK, yes

Rest of world, No

Go on ebay and search aw11 (wordwide) and be prepared to hide your wallet,

Chris

[Bender Unit]

A friend bought a set of BC racing coil overs for his AE86 and I was very surprised by the quality - there is now alot of people using this kit in the drift scene and for what it costs you cant complain.

I drove the car after he had the kit fitted and was pretty impressed with the ride despite the serious drop - I have no doubt that with some set up time on a track they could be set up nicley.

Why not just convert the AW11 strut cases to coilovers, to give you an idea of what is involved youtube AE86 DIY coil overs and you will get an idea of whats needed - then drop in your own dampers, and springs - half price coil overs.

Springs can be made to spec for £20 a corner and then you will likley be able to get an off the shelf damper for your needs (go short stroke if your going low!)

[Jim-SR]

Taiwanese product is often alright for a few months, but long term it inevitably suffers from issues. there is usually a complete lack of product support, damper valvings and spring rates are usually a long way off where they want to be for UK road use, and for the same money there are just better options.

Koni Yellows are a solid product, they are incredibly reliable, the valving is solid, and its not that hard to convert the strut cases to coilover using a system from someone like Ground Control (whereby you can then specify your spring rates).

when the 2 setups (Taiwanese coilover vs Konis and GC sleeves) are pretty much in the same price bracket it makes zero sense to me why anyone would ever choose the Taiwanese products. the ride quality vs performance compromise is always inferior because of the way they valve dampers (for drift use, and useless for just about anything else), and spring rates are often excessive. they come out with a new brand name for the same products every few years, they usually get a few rave reviews on brand new product (before its had a chance to fail), and then a year down the line its always the same horror stories that start emerging. the Taiwanese just straight up dont understand damping, they simply cant compete with companies with motorsport heritage that have spent millions of pounds on solid product development. rather than just taking some measurements, knocking out cheap monotube dampers in a Chinese factory, and selling them without proper product development or quality control. id especially avoid anything on ebay that you havent seen for sale anywhere else! the major Taiwanese brands arent great, the minor ones are horrendous. when youve seen damper dyno plots of brand new dampers that are 300% different on damping force across the range youd appreciate why lol.

for decent quality entry level coilovers youve got to look at mid-range European brands, so then youre into the realms of KW, Bilstein, etc, or high end brands like Ohlins. but there is no product support for the AW11 from these companies anymore (plus prices are always north of a grand for anything worth having), apart from custom built product but nobody wants to spend £5k on custom built Ohlins for a 20+ year old road car lol.

[FossMan]

I've seen this subject a few times and certain people always pop up and tear every suspension set-up apart besides Koni. Not having a go here but a lot of people don't care about spring rates, damper valving etc.

For me. I want to upgrade my suspension to go low eventually. I want anything up to a 100mm drop - not saying I'll go that low but the option is always nice. I have KYB springs and inserts and they are comfy and handle great but I would love to go lower. No low set up is going to be uber comfy and as long as they are reliable I would be very happy.

I really want to investigate converting my struts to coilover and keeping the KYBs or going over to Koni but I am yet to see anyone post pics of their car with that setup and give opinions. If I knew the drop range of a Ground Control or Rally Design setup my mind would be put at ease!

[tonigmr2]

Nobody rate Leda anymore?

[Lauren]

Nobody rate Leda anymore?

Thought they were excellent when I tried them on EAM.

[frogger]

Not having a go here but a lot of people don't care about spring rates, damper valving etc.

Also not having a go - but those who don't care about spring rates, damper valving etc therefore dont care about suspension in any real sense, and thus spending cash on it would be a bit wierd!

Good advice offered above, Koni inserts for road damping, combined with a ground control set up.
Why do anything else? As all other options in a remotely similar price range are *worse*.

Not worse in an opinionated way, not saying worse because of any emotional reaction - just worse because of real data, dyno plots, and assessment of all the control system elements that make a suspension system work effectively as automobile suspension!

[FossMan]

I just meant that some people aren't bothered about the stats and numbers - as long as the car feels OK and the dampers are reliable. I believe you but I'm trying to put the argument across that there are other factors involved in making your choice.

Is anyone going to own up to having the holy grail of Konis with the Ground Control/Rally Design coilover sleeves?

[kaiowas]

Is anyone going to own up to having the holy grail of Konis with the Ground Control/Rally Design coilover sleeves?

I have a set in the garage, got a couple of things to sort out on them before they go on the car, should hopefully be doing it this winter.

[BarronMR]

Is anyone going to own up to having the holy grail of Konis with the Ground Control/Rally Design coilover sleeves?

I have a set in the garage, got a couple of things to sort out on them before they go on the car, should hopefully be doing it this winter.

Me too, just need some koni's.

After that I can give my back to back comparison of d2 : koni/GC sleeves.

[aw11rally]

I'm tempted to try some rally design sleeves on my mk1.5.

Has anyone experimented with spring rates? I've read 4kg/mm front and 9kg/mm rear but I've never tested the rates on any of my setups.

[kaiowas]

I've no idea what springs I've got, either on the car or on my converted coilovers. I'm planning to take both sets to the local motorsport place where they have a spring rate measuring machine, see what rates they all are and then make a decision about whether to use the springs I have or buy some more.

[vashy]

I'm tempted to try some rally design sleeves on my mk1.5.

Has anyone experimented with spring rates? I've read 4kg/mm front and 9kg/mm rear but I've never tested the rates on any of my setups.

I'm running 225lb/in front (pretty close to 4kg/mm) and 375lb/in rear and it needs to be stiffer on the rear.

Did you read that on Club4AG?

[Jim-SR]

for road use id go more like 180/225 upto 225/275 depending on preference. SC's will want an extra 25 lbs on the rear to compensate for the weight.

full on track cars you might end up going as far as 300/350 or thereabouts, but beyond that youre just increasing spring rate for the sake of it. cheap coilover options work better with fairly stiff springs because they have minimal compression damping and excessive rebound damping, so running on softer springs results in crashing and bouncing. but i still wouldnt run the rear more than 50-75 lbs stiffer than the front.

theres no way the rear end should be more than double the spring rate of the front when the motion ratios are the same and weight distribution isnt far off equal. the rear geometry on the AW11 isnt anything horrendous such that you dont want it moving at all. rear-heavy spring setups tend to come from drifting and auto-x/gymkhana. hence anything coming out of Japan, China and Taiwan favours such setups, because thats all they really know. they want the rear to break loose easily, and stiff rear springs and excessive rebound damping are a good way to achieve that. theyre also a good way to achieve an uncomfortable ride and poor drive traction.

[Tiamat]

Whats wrong with good old fashioned KYBs?

[Lauren]

Whats wrong with good old fashioned KYBs?

Too stiff for the road, ride isn't very good. Koni's are a better option.