Koni adjustable damper Setup help - how stiff should I go?

[jb007]

A few weeks ago I installed new koni adjustable inserts and -30mm springs. Its Fantastic. Still waiting for the the springs to settle a bit (looks a bit higher on the front, but thats lack of weight isnt it?)

My question is this: Whats the optimal settings in regards to front and rear stiffness? I went through a period of FULL stiff all round, its sensational but on the UK roads it breaks your back over every little pot hole.

Full SOFT feels very OEM, maybe 10% stiffer but still a nice for 'cruise mode'.

Im trying to figure out the optimal...Maybe half at the front and full on the rear? Im guessing high at front and low at rear is not right? I need to learn this and what it does to the handling, but without track days I cant really push it to breaking point on the road.

My theory says softer at the front to absorb some bumps (but then I get understeer and lose some turn in?) and full hard at the rear to keep it nicely planted on corner exit - correct? I really really want to learn more about car set up and effects but its dangerous when my ability is better than I originally thought!

Any help would be most welcome. Lauren? I know you have lots of track day experience....

Jon

[IanClements]

I find that on full soft mine bottoms out so have to give 'em half a turn anway. I like half a turn from full stiff, just enough to take the choppiness out of the ride but still with good handling.

Any decision you make will be changed every couple of weeks anyway mate, there will always be a smooth road that makes you turn them up followed by a rough road makes you turn them back down again.

[Jim-SR]

the supplied springs are far too soft and sit the car far too low, especially at the rear. this wont change as they "settle", they are just badly spec'd for the car.

on full soft expect to bottom out fairly regularly because with the badly spec'd springs you are pretty much on the bump stops at ride height. i cant remember where mine are at now, but they are generally set somewhere around the middle.

they are a good damper, especially for the money, but not perfect. the springs however are poor, and far too soft and low. a set of Eibach springs would make a big improvement.

[Paul in the Port]

Sorry for the thread hijack a little but where is best to buy Koni's?? I'm a fan of Eibach springs having had them on a Subaru Impreza and my old race car so can the Koni's be bought alone rather than as part of the sport kit/

What rate springs are recommended for UK roads then folks? No track days in the MR2 for me - got a kit car for that.

[WeirdNeville]

I keep them full soft for the road, feels fine to me, a nice balance of ride compliance and handling. Anything firmer feels too "lively" over uneven B-Roads IMO.

[Clarky_X]

Jb007, did you actually buy and fit the Koni sport kit (Koni dampers and springs together)? Or did you get a different type of spring or buy them separately?

[Jim-SR]

Sorry for the thread hijack a little but where is best to buy Koni's?? I'm a fan of Eibach springs having had them on a Subaru Impreza and my old race car so can the Koni's be bought alone rather than as part of the sport kit/

What rate springs are recommended for UK roads then folks? No track days in the MR2 for me - got a kit car for that.

bizarrely it used to work out cheaper to buy the full kit than to buy the individual inserts. not sure where is cheapest now, but il bet its still cheaper to buy the complete kit. then maybe sell the springs on, plenty of people are after cheap lowering springs.

if you want a set of Eibachs then give me a shout as my company sells Eibach springs.

[Clarky_X]

Yes if you buy the inserts you don't get the strut. If you buy the koni sport kit you get a nice new shiny yellow strut. The sport kit used to be best priced from Larkspeed who also sell them on ebay. About £500-£525 complete kit.

[Paul in the Port]

Excellent - thanks guys.

£491 from Larkspeed according to the website at the moment. I'll either be going for the Koni kit or a new road racing bike depending on my bonus at the end of July (the bike is loads dearer so needs a big bonus!! :D)

I'll be in touch sometime Jim.

Cheers
Paul

[MartG]

Yes if you buy the inserts you don't get the strut. If you buy the koni sport kit you get a nice new shiny yellow strut.

Not in the Koni sports kit I got, just the Koni inserts and a set of Apex springs

[Jimbo_Jet]

A few weeks ago I installed new koni adjustable inserts and -30mm springs. Its Fantastic. Still waiting for the the springs to settle a bit (looks a bit higher on the front, but that's lack of weight isn't it?)

the supplied springs are far too soft and sit the car far too low, especially at the rear. this wont change as they "settle", they are just badly spec'd for the car.........the springs are poor, and far too soft and low. a set of Eibach springs would make a big improvement.

I have exactly the same issue on my MK1a, I have a Koni insert and spring kit installed and the springs on the rear are rubbish. I had the front koni shocks and springs installed on their own, due to time issues, and ran like that for a few months and all was well - felt good and prob a 5mm drop in ride height.

A few months later I got my rear Koni's installed along with their springs. The car now rides a whole lot better pootling around town (should have seen the state of the shockers I removed!) but the rear now feels chronically undersprung when cornering quickly, especially on large fast roundabouts and slip road bends. It dips severely on the rear outside corner to the bend and I have to fight bodyroll oversteer coming from the rear if I press on. On level ground it looks like I've got a 30mm drop at the rear where as the front looks almost OEM. I had begun to think was it possible to have put the springs on the wrong way round but I guess I'm not the only one?

So are Eibach springs the best way to go to cure this?

[monkeymax]

I have the Lesjofors springs that came in my Koni sports kit. They're okay. If I had money to blow on the car, I'd be shopping around for some replacement springs (Eibachs would be nice). The rear definitely sits a little lower than I'd like. It's been fine around corners though; definitely happy with the set up there!

As for stiffness; mine are at about the half-way mark most the time. I went to stiffest setting then think I went one turn back from that...

[010on1986]

I was supplied with lesjofor springs with my koni kit, I was not happy with the rear end sag (which I thought was the extra weight of the SC). Also suffered peculiar handling at the rear. took them off.

[IanClements]

I have the Eibachs on my car and I'm not totally happy with them; they seem a bit soft on the front and always seem to allow a small amount of body roll. Steering is not as sharp as with the stock springs either because of this and they must have taken about 2 years to bed in properly.

[Jim-SR]

the Eibachs are progressive, and the front rates start out fairly soft. so the initial movement can be a little soft, but then they firm up and take a set, so in other words on any hard corner they will feel stiffer, but they are soft enough to absorb road bumps. the rears are just stiffer in all regards, but they need to be. you can also use the dampers (when youve got adjustables) to compensate for the initial softness by winding them up a little stiffer. Koni + Eibach is widely regarded as the best off the shelf road setup on a sub-£1000 budget. Ground Control coilovers are the next step up, but probably more suitable for those who track their cars regularly rather than just road users.

the TRD springs are stiffer than the Eibachs, and linear, so they may be better for people who feel that Eibachs are too soft. the problem then is that you sacrifice some ride quality. the Eibachs are probably the best balanced for comfort and performance on the road. they also dont drop the car excessive amounts so you retain decent suspension geometry and thus the handling is better.

with regards springs bedding in or settling, its a bit of a misconception. good quality springs (Eibachs) dont need any time at all, they dont alter in their rate whatsoever from initial use, settling them in is somewhat of a myth. the platforms that the springs sit on are all that has to settle, since they usually have rubber on them. as soon as youve driven the car down the road and steered then the springs find their place and thats it done. all it really affects is ride height (by a minor amount), you wont feel a difference in performance. and as said, as soon as the car is driven the springs are settled. if you were feeling changes in the suspension over a period of years then id suggest that something else was at play.

i offered a group buy on Eibach springs on the TwoBrutal forum a while ago and nobody took up the offer. if anyone wants a price though then give me a shout.

[jb007]

Jb007, did you actually buy and fit the Koni sport kit (Koni dampers and springs together)? Or did you get a different type of spring or buy them separately?

They came in the kit, so I dunno what make they are. Suffice to say they do sit lower at the back and it does bottom out on full soft...so im a little dissapointed now as I was dead happy upto that point.

Im in no position to change springs again now financially, but when i am what are decent springs for the job? as far as the dampers go im more than happy and since posting this I have done some experimentation and decided on 360 degrees on the front (one full turn) and 700 degrees on the rear (nearly 2 full turns). Its not bad, bit soft on the front and not as sharp now, but I dont need to be punished if I hit a slight bump on the road (i trained myself to miss the slightest bump but its getting tiresome when driving tired/hungover!)

Thanks for all the replies so far

EDIT:
Im not complaining handling wise tho, its good and im happy with what the car is communicating to me, its suits my driving style well, but as previously said I cant FULLY exploit the potential it holds due to the public roads. All being well Donnington will be open again soon so I can try a track day!

[Jimbo_Jet]

You have your Konis 1 full turn on the front and almost 2 full turns on the rear?!?!? I bet you dentist loves replacing your fillings everytime he sees you! Seriously, that would cripple me!

If your's are like mine they both take 2 full turns from soft to rock hard - I've been playing around with mine for a bit and when I had them on 1.25 turns front and back I had to stop halfway to work (20miles) to turn them down as they were giving me a headache

I've now settled on full soft up front and 0.75 of a turn at the rear to help with it being under sprung at the rear with the poo springs Koni have provided

[jb007]

You have your Konis 1 full turn on the front and almost 2 full turns on the rear?!?!? I bet you dentist loves replacing your fillings everytime he sees you! Seriously, that would cripple me!

If your's are like mine they both take 2 full turns from soft to rock hard - I've been playing around with mine for a bit and when I had them on 1.25 turns front and back I had to stop halfway to work (20miles) to turn them down as they were giving me a headache

I've now settled on full soft up front and 0.75 of a turn at the rear to help with it being under sprung at the rear with the poo springs Koni have provided

My fronts take 2 full turns and a BIT for full and the rear is JUST under 2 full turns. In the instructions it shows upto 2 full turns but mine doesnt quite make the full second turn.

I love it stiff and hard (ermmmm dont take that the wrong way )
and for the first 4 weeks I had it all on the hardest possible, which to be honest, having just popped down to the shops...Im going to just stick it all on the stiffest and be done with it. I love the 'go kart' feel, even if the bumps are hard work to avoid. My teeth and back can take a little more yet, especially if it makes me feel like an F1 driver

Sad innit? lol

[Jimbo_Jet]

i offered a group buy on Eibach springs on the TwoBrutal forum a while ago and nobody took up the offer. if anyone wants a price though then give me a shout.

So Jim, how much would I be looking at for a set of Eibach's for a MK1a?

Has anyone tried the 20mm drop & 20% stiffer progressive ones from £ensport?

[Clarky_X]

Anyone used bc racing coilovers? They seem very cheap at £630. But are they any good?

Anyone seen this link?
http://www.technicalgarage.com/articles/aw11/coilover/