Top Mount Interccoler and engine bay pics

[Jimbob]

Just finished installing my top-mounted intercooler kit.

Theres a few loose wires about and needs small bits bolting on, heat sheild needs to go on as I was getting my downpipe on but getting there.

Fan kit is really smeary as I wiped it over n got water marks

I'll take detailed pics soon

[Rowland]

Very Impressive... =D>

[BLOODUK]

Very impressive though i wouldnt like to work on your engine
if you had anything wrong with it

[screech]

looks sweet

[cantfindausername]

Is that the Border kit?

[EarL]

Not trying to p1ss on your chips or anything, but doesn't putting the intercooler (larger or not) in the engine bay defeat the object? I thought that was why GT4 owners couldn't run as much boost as MR2 owners?

You know they call it an "interwarmer"!!

[BLOODUK]

Not trying to p1ss on your chips or anything, but doesn't putting the intercooler (larger or not) in the engine bay defeat the object? I thought that was why GT4 owners couldn't run as much boost as MR2 owners?

You know they call it an "interwarmer"!!

Its right above where all that hot water comes through the pipes
also located near the temp sensor

[cantfindausername]

quite a few people are opting for this set up over a boot mounted kit. it enables you to fit a larger I/C without chopping the car. Surely if there is enough air being drawn through it it will be ok for its job.

It will be interesting to see the difference of opinion the UK & US guys have on this.

[MR2Mania]

will be interesting to see the difference of opinion the UK & US guys have on this.

Remember, the US guys are mostly restricted to doing 55mph on their "freeways" (more in some states), and they also tend to live life "a Quarter Mile at a time!".

Over here, we tend to want it to be OK for trackdays, etc.

[baz995]

that is very nice, how much???

[jonno]

Any performance figures?

[Jimbob]

No it isnt a Border kit it's one Steve and I (QJD) have been playing with for a while. We have no immediate plans of putting it into production but may do in the future.

This core design has been tested to [email protected] in a front mounted application so theres no fears over its ability

I have just got to plumb in my intake temperture sensor and water spray kit and i'll do plenty of testing. I don't expect it to be as efficient as a chargecooler, but then I don't expect it to be more than half the price either! We could probably knock these out for £500 a setup and £50 for a water spray kit, but as I said no immediate plans, as soon as there is it'll be in affiliates. I am keen not to make this a sales pitch as it's just a one off presently, and me showing off

It should be ok for my desired power of around 350bhp. It gets a nice airflow from the left hand intake pod and I have removed the meshing etc to enhance flow. Plus my left hand fan sits right on top of it

I just wanted a cheapish, direct bolt on kit that wouldn't mean breaking open my piggy bank, that would be reasonably efficient for my horsepower, that would keep all original bodywork in tact (not boot mount), wouldn't be too laggy, and would look good . Anyway we'll see how it performs in good time, it's gota be better than stock!

James

[TBDevelopments]

Any air flow tests for the location bud?

Don't get me wrong you do get flow through that area because of the aerodynamics of the car but even with a side mount the area to the sides is shrouded so all the air passes through the core but with a design like the air can travel around the intercooler instead of through it. Air will always travel the least restictive way which is around the sides. This means the main cooling to be done with the air a pusher fan can produce.

I believe border discontuied the intercooler line in that location because of poor cooling properties, I don't have proof on this just whats been passed down from previous owners compaired to side mounts like greddy or spearco.

Also where did you get the results from the intercooler? you said it was a front mount test so it means its hasn't come from an mr2 which means you run into comparison problems, different car leads to different flows and turbo's which produce greater air mass and lower temps. You can have the best intercooler in the world tested to 3 bar and 1000bhp but if your not getting the same air flow through it which you would having it mounted in the front its not going to perform half as well as it did, and i'm sure your aware no fan can produce the air flow a car traveling at 80mph will create.

I'm not making things difficult just don't want someone to make the mistake of releacing another untested product.

Tim
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[Jimbob]

Yeah, all those niggles have been through my mind Tim.

I am working on a shroud that comes from the air pod onto the base of the intercooler (maybe in fibreglass or ally). Also I am having a fan underneath to push air through and my fan kit over the top to pull the hot air out so that should help.

Very Good news on testing

The turbo end of the intercooler gets hot (as I would expect) but if you grab the opposite end post coling it's a hell of a lot cooler. In fact you can actually grab hold of the boost pipes that go from the intercooler to the throttle body!!!!! And keep a hold of them!!!!! I am estimating air outlet temps at around 50'C, which for an intercooler in it's primitive state ain't bad. (judgement based on feeling pump bearings in service and using infared probes as comparison in my day job)

Hopefully with a little more effort on air flows I can reduce these further. Plus I will have my water spray bar on soon.

I'm not making things difficult just don't want someone to make the mistake of releacing another untested product.

Thanks for your concerns over someone releasing some competition but..............

No it isnt a Border kit it's one Steve and I (QJD) have been playing with for a while. We have no immediate plans of putting it into production but may do in the future.

Testing on my car will be ongoing now for a while. I hope to have 350bhp by the end of this year so i'll test it again more thoroughly then.

Looks very promising at the moment, and i'm chuffed


James[/quote]

[Jimbob]

Don't get me wrong you do get flow through that area because of the aerodynamics of the car but even with a side mount the area to the sides is shrouded so all the air passes through the core but with a design like the air can travel around the intercooler instead of through it.

Don't the spearco and Greddy both require removal of the stock shroud? Which anyway is not very big compared to the effective core on either of those? So airflow with it removed will suffer the same problems and airflow with it in place will mean parts of the core aren't getting air? I'm sure it's removed though.

Air will always travel the least restictive way which is around the sides. This means the main cooling to be done with the air a pusher fan can produce.

Fans in progress

I believe border discontuied the intercooler line in that location because of poor cooling properties, I don't have proof on this just whats been passed down from previous owners compaired to side mounts like greddy or spearco.

You can certainly still buy the border as I looked into it, albeit it for around £1000! Still available though, and border still make it. I've been chatting to people who suggest the border setup has been used on a fair few cars in the states to acheive 500bhp


James

[TBDevelopments]

well i'm not asking these questions because i feel your competition, i sell the greddy because i know its tried and tested wheres yours isn't. Forgive me for waiting for proof in testing before i consider you competition. I just don't want to see another product sold that over estermates the power and flow avalible like some other companies i won't mention.

Also you really need to get some air temp readings, saying you can hold the outlet pipe after boosting won't cut it. If you leave the fan on constant on the standard intercooler you can do that. leave the fan on constant on my greddy and after an hour of hard boosting the outtake is still very cold, not just bareable.

I won't argue on the border as i said before this was just something that was passed down from previous owners so i have no proof.

Also the shround on the standard intercooler does get removed when fitting a greddy or spearco you are correct but they refit there own shround closer to the intake vent. so all the air still has to pass through the core not around it. Tests have also proven you don't need the intake vent to the intercooler the same size as the intercooler core face, I believe the vent only has to be 1/3 the size of the core to effectively cool the surface as well as the full size intake vent compaited to the intercooler.

Also please i'm trying to have a mature conversation, how come everytime i ask questions about someone elses product people think i'm trying to be difficult. I asked dino the same about his chargecooler and i'm a support of this product because i know the research and development thats gone into this product, Hes done everything the right way, not just taken others findings and adapted it

Tim
xxxx

[philz]

Looks good James and once you've got some figures for it I reckon it could be a good seller for those of us that "only" want 350ish BHP.

Keep us updated

[Jimbob]

Cheers Philz.

Tim,

well i'm not asking these questions because i feel your competition, i sell the greddy because i know its tried and tested wheres yours isn't. Forgive me for waiting for proof in testing before i consider you competition. I just don't want to see another product sold that over estermates the power and flow avalible like some other companies i won't mention.

Did you read the bit about it not going into production yet? Or that testing is ongoing? And you can't be in competition with us as you don't make anything yourself, we would be in competition with Greddy and your prices if that were to be the case

Also you really need to get some air temp readings, saying you can hold the outlet pipe after boosting won't cut it. If you leave the fan on constant on the standard intercooler you can do that. leave the fan on constant on my greddy and after an hour of hard boosting the outtake is still very cold, not just bareable.

Hmmm, So if you can hold your outlet pipe comfortably and it feels cold after hard boosting you must be running around 30'C temps or less, very impressive and a lot lower than anyone else has been able to acheive on a Greddy as most seem to be up to 70'C on boost?

Admittedly my temp measuring method is crude but I am welding on a boss for my thermocouple so will have very accurate results then.

I won't argue on the border as i said before this was just something that was passed down from previous owners so i have no proof.

Also the shround on the standard intercooler does get removed when fitting a greddy or spearco you are correct but they refit there own shround closer to the intake vent. so all the air still has to pass through the core not around it. Tests have also proven you don't need the intake vent to the intercooler the same size as the intercooler core face, I believe the vent only has to be 1/3 the size of the core to effectively cool the surface as well as the full size intake vent compaited to the intercooler.

Very interesting. So whats the point in having a bigger core if only 1/3 of it gets airflow the rest is just through radiant heat loss? Hmmmmmm? Where did you read that? You need full suface area flow to acheive good cooling, thats why i ruled out a boot mount as it's trciky to get in, and out again all that air.

Also please i'm trying to have a mature conversation, how come everytime i ask questions about someone elses product people think i'm trying to be difficult. I asked dino the same about his chargecooler and i'm a support of this product because i know the research and development thats gone into this product, Hes done everything the right way, not just taken others findings and adapted it

It seems funny that I have made a bit of kit for my car yet you are keen to slag it yet others are supportive, and you still refer to it as my product. It's not for sale, and it's not tested, it's my handy work on my car. I've got respect for Dino to as he's a nice bloke as well as clever.

James

[TBDevelopments]

you don't make anything yourself

I've got a few things up my sleeve that will carry my company name

very impressive and a lot lower than anyone else has been able to achieve on a Greddy as most seem to be up to 70'C on boost?

These figures that are usually taken from when I car is tuned on a dyno' remember a dyno has very little air flow and you'll find your intercooler will have the same problem on the dyno. This is why most Japanese companies do there final tuning on the road as a rolling road can't accurately produce the same effects.

Very interesting. So what’s the point in having a bigger core if only 1/3 of it gets airflow the rest is just through radiant heat loss? Hmmmmmm? Where did you read that? You need full surface area flow to achieve good cooling, that’s why I ruled out a boot mount as it's tricky to get in, and out again all that air.

I don't think you understand what I mean, I’m not talking about intercooler surface area I’m talking about the intake vent compared to the intercooler surface area. You only need an intake 1/3 the size of the intercooler surface to produce enough air to cool that area, anything bigger has no effect.

It seems funny that I have made a bit of kit for my car yet you are keen to slag it yet others are supportive, and you still refer to it as my product.

Once again just because I’m asking questions instead of saying "oooooh yeah that’s nice" I’m slagging it off. Pick one bit where I was slagging it off? All I asked is that you answered it with an intelligent reply.

Tim
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[craig]

That looks awesome mate =D>