Are Spigot rings really needed?

[Moo]

As above, are spigot rings really needed for aftermarket wheels?

I bought a new set of alloys a while back and fitted them without spigot rings and they were fine. I then saw a few posts on here saying that you should use them with aftermarket wheels if the bore size of the wheel was too large for the hub which mine were. I got a set of plastic spigot rings from the wheel manufacturer but once fitted I was getting horrendous wheel wobble. Have had the wheels balanced 3 times now but it hasn't made any difference. The latest balance was done today and the spigots were tight in the wheel.

I'm probably going to take them off as it was fine prior to fitting them but why would they cause this problem? All the posts I've read suggest you'd get wheel wobble without the spigots fitted but it's the other way around for me. Are they really essential or can I get away without using them?

Cheers

[Harry]

1) rims buckled after fitting the spigot rings
2) caliper slider seized locking the wheel randomly - excessive brake dust
3) laser alignment with print out v manual settings
4) wheel lugs bolts tightened/torqued to 120 MM
5) incorrect spigot unit fit protrudes the edge not flush
6) drop link bolts come loose require torquing or replacing
7) directional wheels tyres fitted wrong direction sides around - tyre damage
8 ) tyre pressure leak too soft too hard or a combination of
9) plastic spigots broken or not replaced or both if the wheel firm removed the wheels
10) aftermarket wheels 'require' spigots - stock wheels not
11) buckled wheels can be improved by setting the weights as best - reducing the wobble to a point so yes they can say its been done but not perfect or correct
12) Wheel width plus offsets - tyre size/ profile

Unless you watched them doing the balancing on the laser machinery you will not know if the wheel was buckled they can say its balanced as best as they can - but not perfect. Think its a combination of above. Acid test remove spigots if they are still on and try without. Try fitting the tyres on the opposite sides - remove off the rims to swap. Tyre wear/suspension geometry set up? Laser print out to confirm? This gives you a list to work against.

[Harry]

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii304/GT_U/17019.jpg 11) ref.

[Harry]

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_would_the ... eel_wobble

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/ ... t8285.html

I have been told something along those lines glyn. I believe something as small as a locking wheel nut can also throw out the balance. My balancing headaches turned out to be caused by nothing more than a sticky brake piston. It took a long time to find it but when I did, my wheels didn't wobble any more right up to 120 MPH on the runway at an airshow last weekend.

I think it's mainly down to the fitters. Many don't know how to use the equipment properly and most don't give a monkey about your car. If you watch them balancing they never put on the weights exactly where the machine tells them. I would also imagine that a lot of the machines don't accurately balance wheels anymore due to the amount of abuse they have received over the years.

I cannot understand why tyre shops produce so many different results with wheel balancing.

I used to be in a different tyre shop every week..."Please can you cure the vibration in the steering at 75mph. I can drive through it" I said.

One shop would say it's the front wheels that need balacncing, some would say the rear.
Another would say it's the bushes, another the brakes, another a buckled alloy.

Ok this may be the case in some situations but if you can drive through the vibration in the steering it's the wheels that need balancing.

However we are in a pathetic situation that no two tyre shops will balance the wheels the same.

Every time I had my front wheels balanced I had a different weight on them and the vibration remained.

What's so **** hard about balancing a wheel ?

I say to a shop "look mate you can either balance a wheel or not - you are a tyre shop for *** sake".

A number of times I have returned to a shop and said it's not cured the problem to be told "oh the chap who did it has only just started here and didn't do it properly" - then they balance it different again.

Why don't the shops just balance all four wheels PROPERLY and be done with it.

The tyre place that eventually cured my year long problem was Wilmslow Tyres in Cheshire and they said "Look - we can balance Ferarris so we can balance your car. I'm going to balance all
four wheels". He also explained what balancing was and why it made the car wobble.

Ten minutes later I was cruising down the motorway with supreme smoothness !

I cannot understand how people can put up with driving a high class car with this vibration.

They may as well get a 1995 Ford Escort !!!!

Why this wheel balancing is such a black art is beyond me. It's not rocket science.

When mine was brand new there was absolutely no vibration at all.

Then I got a puncture (offside rear) that required a new tyre. This was done and balanced at a Lexus main dealer and I found that I had very slight vibration at about 60mph, that as others have found, you can drive through.

I have had all mine balanced by an expert which revealed that 3 out of the 4 were incorrect (including the new one) and have been re-balanced. However, I still have slight vibration at 60mph that is not vibrating the steering wheel but you can feel in the general handling of the car. This points me to the car and not the wheels themselves. Maybe wear and tear in the bearings ?

My car went into Lexus for it's 20K service a few weeks ago and I haven't a clue what they did but the vibration (very very slight and I'm being pedantic) is now at just under 70mph and again can be driven through.

Theory 2 :

I always check my pressures cold and I set to 35psi as per professional advice since 33psi was wearing the edges more than the centre.
When I had mine balanced I had to drive 15 miles and the wheels & tyres were warm/hot.
The pressures were adjusted to 35psi and the balance occurred. The following morning when the tyres were cold my pressures were down to 31psi so I upped them back to 35psi. The theory being that 33psi cold was wearing the edges so I guessed that 35psi cold must be the answer.

With the 4psi difference does this now mean that I am running hot at 39psi ?
If so will that affect the balance at those temperatures ?
Out of curiosity are F1 tyres balanced cold or hot ?
Strange !

[Harry]

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii304/GT_U/1-1.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii304/GT_U/5-1.jpg

Some valid points raised in the link: Overused wheel machinery - lack of care by wheel fitters - experience doing it - tyre pressure accuracy use of a hand held gauge - etc. I have only ever used Pro Tyre - and follow the process watching every detail under the car in the machinery location fitting new tyres with weights - laser settings/print outs.

[Moo]

Thanks for taking the time to compile all of that Harry, there's a wealth of information there

Having only picked the car up on Friday after it being off the road for 5 months I only drove it briefly on Saturday to get the wheels balanced again but spent more time in it today driving to and from the world record attempt. The wobble I'm getting now is way worse than I seem to remember prior to it going off the road and it's now an intermittent wobble where as before it was contant.

It's not a constant wobble, it comes and goes. I can be stting at 70mph and it's fine for a few miles but then it just starts wobbling like crazy, so badly it makes my hands tingle from trying to hold onto the wheel! Then it's ok for a little while and so on. Sometimes the wobble starts from 40mph and gets worse the faster you go, other times it's ok until you get up into the 60's/70's before it does it. Random!

After today's drive I now think the whole spigot thing is a red herring and put the wheel wobble I was getting after fitting the spigots (last year) down the company I used to balance the wheels not being able to balance wheels properly and not a problem with the spigots themselves. They had 2 attempts at balancing the wheels and got it wrong both times I think. I used a different company on Saturday and they reported 3 of my wheels were out of balance.

Given that I've just had the brakes done and it's pulling to the left on the brakes makes me think one of my front discs isn't seated properly or I have a sticky caliper/slider. Going to get those things checked out first and see where we go from there.

I've gone through the rest of the list and can pretty much rule most of it out as being the cause with the possible exception of 1) but I would have thought a buckled wheel would have shown up on the balancer and would give me a constant wobble. Hope it's not a buckled wheel, they've done less than 4000 miles since new!

My money is on 2).

Thanks again

[CM1GT]

i had pretty similar symptons to this, turns out i had a slightly flatted front tyre from a lock up, raising the tyre pressure helped