Offer/Agreement sale of MR 2 Highly disappointed by the treatment of a member?

[rsevo6]

I had put this text up under another topic, but Harry has now chosen to make it a separate thread
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Bit off topic, but would like to know if it is possibly an idea to put a (suspected) bad seller notification topic up?

I myself have been in contact (several mails and telephone conversations)with a longterm Imoc member who was temporarily working/living in Canada and who has a very nice Turbo.
He has put the car up for sale before a long time ago, but retracted as he couldn't part with it.
I had been in contact with him then and as I was again/still in the market for a car like that, I contacted him 3 months ago to ask what his plans were, if he was thinking of selling afterall. He contacted me that he indeed wanted to sell.
After some mails and a long telephone conversation on price and sale terms, we by phone reached a firm verbal agreement me buying his quite special forged MR2 Turbo from him.
At first he was holding back a firm sale agreement as he hadn't seen the car for a long time and first wanted to make sure all was a he left it. I told him I there couldn't be anything seriously wrong and if there turned out to be any problems with him correcting that before handing the car over to me, I didn't feel that to be a problem. I wanted a sure sale, so I could stop looking for a car.

After this, he very clearly said yes on the agreement and (as assurance for him) I sent him a confirmation mail of the agreed sale, on which he never sent me any mails that I was wrong on this.

Only problem was that he was still abroad and I had to wait for him to return to the UK end of April to be able to make pickup, so I waited on that.
Since then, quite unforseen I have seen several nice cars to my liking turn up for sale, but based on the made firm agreement, I never acted on them as I was under the assumption I already had committed to a buy.

However, closing to the moment of his return, I tried to contact to make a pickup appointment and couldn't reach him.
After lots of contact attempts he finally reacted, answering he never made a firm sale with me, just an intended sale, because he first wanted to see the car back in person (as it was in storage for a long time) and he felt he wanted to make sure all was well before he could hand it over in a definate sale.
I let him know that I didn't feel any issues caused by the storage to be a problem as long as he corrected them and that in my opinion we still had a firm sale agreement. I had at that moment been waiting to finalise pickup for over a month already.
He replied that there was no sale agreed and first wanted to see the car.
However, shortly after this the car has appeared for sale on Pistonheads, however as he was still in Canada, strangely the mentioned inspection before feeling he coud sell to me didn't matter to him with other buyers.
Only reason I can think of him breaking up the agreement with me, is that he regretted the deal made and hopes to get a better price form another buyer.
I have all emailcontacts concerning this stored, to be able to back up my claim.

Since then, I have not been able to reach him. One time he did pick up the phone, but when hearing me, he hang up.
I am soo angry, having committed to a buy and waiting patiently letting other nice opportunities pass and now finding out the guy to break the agreement.
I thought him to be a trustworthy Imoc member to keep his word as I always do when making a verbal agreement, which I feel to be just as binding as a written one.
However, some people clearly seem to lack this descency.

So I would like to have some place to warn any other Imoc members when dealing with this person to be aware and name him.
In my opinion putting up a forum topic on dubious sellers would possibly give warning to others when entering into dealings with this kind of sellers.

[Harry]

Hello Rene hope you are well or at least a bit better now. How is Edwin, Frederik and all the other members from Holland? Sorry to hear about your woes. Do you have a link of the Piston-Heads advert?

Sounds like you chose a desirable MR 2. Could the seller simply have raised his price to you by the way of a counter offer? Rather than the demonstarion of his social skills.

Since then, I have not been able to reach him. One time he did pick up the phone, but when hearing me, he hang up.

[Nails]

Its not right what he has done, but I can say I am wary of selling aboard. I've been scammed on ebay for cheap things from aboard before, and Im sure many people have.
I'm currantly in the process of selling my car to some one aboard and its a very nerve racking experience in case its some elaborate scam, even though he seems all for it and has even sent a deposit so I'll travel to the airport to meet him.
Since this agreement Ive had several very interested partys on the phone who are all within a couple of hours drive, so its not hard selling one I don't think.

[rsevo6]

Sounds like you chose a desirable MR 2. Could the seller simply have raised his price to you by the way of a counter offer? Rather than the demonstarion of his social skills.

Since then, I have not been able to reach him. One time he did pick up the phone, but when hearing me, he hang up.

No Harry,
The price was firmly agreed upon during the lengthy telephone conversation when the sale was agreed upon and details were discussed and was not too far from the asking price that he put up to me at the beginning of this conversation.

Yes, to be honest, he was hesitant to make a firm sale at that moment as he stated he wanted to first check the car on his return to the UK.
I however assured him I didn't feel there could be a problem and even if something turned out to be wrong, if he corrected this before handing the car over, it wouldn't be a problem for me.
I told him my reason for pressing on a firm sale to be that I wanted to be 100% sure of getting this nice car and to be able to stop searching for one.
Time waiting wasn't an issue for me, I would wait till he had all arranged after his return. He then agreed on the definate sale, I repeated that we had a firm deal several times, if he agreed we had a firm deal and he confirmed this.

There has never been an attempt to put up a higher price to me.
He did however advertise the car without lots of parts that were agreed upon to be included in the sale to me.

The way this has all developed has really surprised me as I was certain to deal with a trustworthy Imoc member who could be trusted to live up to the agreement made. Shows you how wrong one can be, really disappointing!

To Nails:
I am a Imoc member with 3 pos feedback, a Ebay user with 60+ pos feedback from all over the globe and I offered him to make a Paypal downpayment as assurance, which he declined on.
He stated he trusted me to live up to the deal, yeah, right!

[Harry]

I had put this text up under another topic, but Harry has now chosen to make it a separate thread

Well yes I have. It was placed in the wrong section. A for sale section. Be it a problem one at this stage. Inappropriate. Let me say Rene'. As no funds were exchanged. In advance; it will be appreciated if no trouble was made of this matter here.

Also naming the person and your private dealing online here would also again not be appropriate. In terms of fostering the: 'friendly-club-spirit-atmosphere'. Which can and will lead to this thread being either removed and or locked.

I hope this post was not placed in the sale section to show IMOC-UK in a bad light? That is all I have to say on this mater. Cheers.

[rsevo6]

Harry,
Ofcourse I don't want to put Imoc UK in a bad light!
Over the last years I had invaluable info from here and lots of nice contacts with other members too.
The remarks in the other topic just triggered me to write there as I am still so angered by the way things for me have developed.

His is exactly why I haven't named the guy in public as I already assumed this wouldn't be appreciated here.
I did however wonder if a warning topic or such could be created, interesting to other members possibly wanting to deal with people like this, and making things a bit more difficult for them to act in this dishonest manner.

[raptor95GTS]

I can understand why someone selling stuff would prefer a UK buyer but it that's how you feel then why accept an offer from abroad? What makes it worse here is a perfectly reasonable buyer has let other cars go by that may have been as or more suitable but now he's left with nothing. I suppose the saving grace is no money changed hands but time is something you can't get back.

[Harry]

Harry,
Ofcourse I don't want to put Imoc UK in a bad light!
Over the last years I had invaluable info from here and lots of nice contacts with other members too.
The remarks in the other topic just triggered me to write there as I am still so angered by the way things for me have developed.

His is exactly why I haven't named the guy in public as I already assumed this wouldn't be appreciated here.
I did however wonder if a warning topic or such could be created, interesting to other members possibly wanting to deal with people like this, and making things a bit more difficult for them to act in this dishonest manner.

Yes Rene'. Its appreciated. Its also understandable how you feel. People can and will change their minds - buyers and sellers alike. They have this right to. We as people cannot change that. Sometimes one may not like how other people go about their activities.

But that's life I'm afraid. Yes a verbal agreement is one thing. A black and white written agreement with funds and or both goods transferred is an entirely different matter. Not saying that Principal is unimportant though. As Allan highlights.

[rsevo6]

What makes it worse here is a perfectly reasonable buyer has let other cars go by that may have been as or more suitable but now he's left with nothing.

Exactly, this is what perhaps angers me the most!
As a result of me feeling bound by my word I let one even better car (the Momentum built Turbo that sold on MR2OC UK just 4 weeks ago) which I wanted even more, pass.
I have been in contact with that seller and really wanted that car, however as I felt I couldn't go back on my given word on the earlier agreed sale, I didn't act on that car. Had I known earlier how my seller would break the sale, I would have directly bought that Momentum Turbo.

Also, the seller I supposedly had an agreement with (I thought) has the car in Falkirk Scotland.
I spent quite some time researching how to get there to pick up and get it to The Netherlands.
Now it turns out all this has been time waisted thanks to the immoral attitude of this guy.
Am still considering how I can now make selling the car as difficult as possible for him.