Car won't idle

[Shmed]

Hi,

I have been chatting with JJ about my car not idling problem on another thread, but it wasn't my thread, and I'd uploaded loads of photos, so the page took ages to load. The thread is here:
http://imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php? ... 8&start=20

To summarise the thread:
I rebuilt parts of the the engine having bought it as a non-runner. I have put the following items on (some of which came with the car, others which I had to source):

CT-26 turbo
Stock IC
Hyper SR downpipe
Mongoose Exhaust
Stock air intake
Fuel pipe
Fuel rail
fuel pressure regulator
throttle body
numerous vacuum pipes

Finally got it all together and started it. The car starts when the throttle is pressed, but stalls as soon as I take my foot off the gas.

JJ suggested vacuum leak so I propped the AFM open, and the car will idle although it just sits revving between 1000 and 2000 rpm.

Apparently this is a sign of a vacuum leak, but I can't seem to find anywhere it is leaking.

I have checked the AFM, TPS and the Idle Control valve using the BGB and all of them seem to check out fine.

I have checked the mechanical timing (as suggested by JJ) and that is ok (although I broke the top cam belt cover in the process of checking )

I am a little concerned that I don't know for definite that the internals of the engine are sound. I'm happy that the engine sounds fine when I am revving it, but does that mean the internals are fine, and would it be worth doing a compression test?

I'm stuck for ideas at the minute, so if anyone has any that they would care to share, I would be very appreciative!!!

Also, the loom has been 'modified' by the previous owner as I think it had a rev3 conversion previously, although I have returned it to rev 2 standard I am not definite that all of the sensors are correctly wired

I have bought an AVCR from MR2_Turbs, so as soon as that arrives I will be fitting that - for what it's worth.

Sorry for the long post, but I'm literally

[Shmed]

Things I'm planning next (I'll add to this as people suggest things, then post any results):

1. Pressure test the IC to the TB
2. Block off the AC idle up VSV
3. Compression Test

[Shmed]

In my continuing pursuit of the most relevant hit from the IMOC search, I have found this:

http://imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php? ... light=idle

Hopefully someone is about who can help me again with this question.....

I know my car had a PowerFC on it before I bought it, so is it possible that my dizzy has been moved? and would this cause the problem I am having? The car now has a stock rev2 ECU.

[JJ]

Ooops .. forgot about this thread !! You went quiet for a few days and thought all was rosy

know my car had a PowerFC on it before I bought it

Hey... I didn't know about this.. probably my speed reading between the lines...

So its been converted to a Rev 3, then you've retrofitted it with a rev 2 again ?! Crikey.... where do we start !!??

Should have just sourced a rev 3 ecu and plugged that in .. you wouldn't have any of the inherited problems the rev 1/2's have ( AFM vac leaks )

Ok... let go at this a different way...

1. If its had a power FC on it ... a Rev 3 one, then its possible the injectors are 540cc's ??!! Check to see if they're red or black ??

2. Rev 3 conversions need an igniter to fire the coil at a higher rpm... , now I know the rev 2 will work on the rev 3 ecu ( limited rpms ) but I dont know if it'll work the other way around ( assuming it should )

3. Check the map sensor part number as well.. if it is the rev 3.. the scaling is different....

So in summary... you're trying to run your car, but it'll be difficult to start as its running mega rich ( 540cc's possible opposed to the 440cc's ) and also the different scaling map sensor....

Any chance you can take a picture of the map sensor ?? I know people stick Celica GT4's on so the part numbers will be different, but generally, the shape of them are noticably different !

[Shmed]

Hey JJ, I wish all was rosy - I'm not sure I mentioned the previous history as I was thread-jacking. Now I have mny own thread all will hopefully become clear

The injectors (from memory) are red.

Which one is the map sensor again?

I would've left it as a rev3 conversion, but the guy who had it before took most of the goodies off. I have the bracket that I believe is for the MAT sensor (instead of cold start injector?), but no MAT sensor - so I had to refit the cold start injector. I know it's daft, because once the car is working and I know it can work (ie no knackered internals), then I am going to look into Link ECU and uprated fuelling and turbo etc.

[JJ]

Hi Buddy,

Map sensor is next to the diagnostic port .. drivers side, bottom left hand corner.

Red injectors - theres one of your problems... it needs blackens in to run with that ecu !!

Let me see if I've got any laying about

[Shmed]

I want to go home and check now, work is such a ball ache!!!! I reckon (with you on call) I could get this sorted in a day if I only didn't have to work!!

Makes sense though, if the injectors are bigger than the ECU thinks they are

Do you know the part code for the map sensor so I can find it on the parts guide? I don't recall plugging anything in in that area of the engine

[Shmed]

Is it this one? I thought this was the stock pressure gauge sender:

[JJ]

Hang on.. I'm even getting confused here.... that map sensor is the stock pressure gauge sensor ( which you've highlighted ), but on the rev 3+'s, its used to calculate the fuelling.. Rev 1/2's use the AFM....

If you do have a rev 3 map sensor, then it wont do anything other than have a high fuel cut ( 17/18 psi ) opposed to 12psi. Apologies for that scaling comment, its more applicable to those that go from rev 2 to rev 3 where you'd have to change the sensor.

Makes sense though, if the injectors are bigger than the ECU thinks they are

Which is why it wont idle !

An alternative way to compensate this is to fit an adjustable fuel pressure regulator .. yes I know its more money.. but you'll be able to reduce the static pressure on the rail.... and at a later date, you can increase the pressure to make them run on the rev 3 ecu or programmable unit.

The problem is.. you've got to be very careful how much you reduce the pressure by as you'll risk running it lean....

Again.. I'll have a nosy to see if I've got a rail kicking about with the 440cc injectors - probably resolve all your problems now !

It does mean.. you've got to pull that throttle body back off again... bet you could do ti with your eyes closed !!

You're getting there though... !

Any other things you want to get on the table ??! Its a 5 litre or sommat ?!!

[Shmed]

It's not a 5 litre, but it does have 7 pistons......

[Shmed]

Ok, so I am going to go home, take the TB off (again), check the colour of the injectors. If they are red (which I hope they are) I need to get an SAFC like device or some rev 2 injectors. If they are black, then it's back to the drawing board??

Is there any validity in propping the AFM again so the car idles, and then doing the WD40 test around the vacuum system or will the propping of the AFM make the car run regardless?

[JJ]

Check the injectors first !! You should be able to just inspect it without taking the throttle off... just have a looky at 1 ( cam belt end ) and 4 !!

SAFC - that will work as well if you want to go down that route. I had a Pheonix powered ecu than ran 850cc's .. stuck an SAFC II in to sort the fuelling out on idle

[Shmed]

I'll check the injectors (I'm now convincing myself that they are actually black not red ).

Cheers

[TUBBY-DEUCE]

i had the same problem and a grub screw had come off the throttle body, where the spring loaded part bit is that attaches to throttle cable, screwed another grub screw in and it was fine.
not a very technical answere im sorry, but that was my problem sorted

[Shmed]

Cheers, anything that might help is always appreciated. I think I know the grub screw you mean and I'm pretty sure it is there. The one I'm thinking of is the one you put the feeler gauge between when checking the throttle position sensor.

[TUBBY-DEUCE]

Cheers, anything that might help is always appreciated. I think I know the grub screw you mean and I'm pretty sure it is there. The one I'm thinking of is the one you put the feeler gauge between when checking the throttle position sensor.

yes mate thats the one.

[Shmed]

Ok, cheers anyway

[Shmed]

Hey JJ,

The injectors are black

I took a video of it idling (with the AFM slightly open). After it ran for about a minute, the turbo started to smoke. It did this before but I put it down to crap on the compressor housing. I'm not certain that I filled the coolant right though, so it might just be that.

Just converting the video to something more postable.

[Shmed]

http://shmedz.com/filez/video/car2.avi

It's about 20MB.

Why doesn't that work as a link?????

I don't know if it is clear on the video, but where I focus in on the turbo after turning the car off, smoke seems to come from there.

The occasional clicking (almost banging) noise is coming from the engine occasionally.

[Shmed]

Sorry to be a pain in the ar$e JJ, don't suppose you have a chance to look at my video? The injectors are black on top so it isn't that, should I be able to feel a noticable suction if I take a hose of the inlet and stick my thumb over it?