V8 Mk1 6 speed with power steering

[pantera2075]

If I may, i'd like to elaborate on the Audi engine/box combo from a slightly different angle:

There are relatively few transaxles available for inline/mid mount operation. Basically, there are customs (££££££'s), The ZF DS fitted to the Pantera, GT40, and BMW M1. Again ££££'s, a good one is around £2.5K.
Then there's old Citroen - Fitted to the Maserati Merak, but these won't take the power of modern V8's. Same goes for Renault ones. The 21 Turbo is nearly up to it - but flexes and leaks oil. Then there's the Audi boxes - earlier ones are ok, but have an integral bellhousing so you can't fit a large diameter flywheel. Later ones much better and stronger. Also, there are off-the-shelf torque converter to clutch plates available, and the box bolts straight up to the Audi engine block.

QED.

So, look out for an Audi engined '71 Pantera at the shows in 2 or 3 years time

[PW@Woodsport]

Agreed, the Audi unit is a glorious engine, and the fact that it bolts to any FWD Audi gearbox just seals the deal for me.

Matt the holy grail of the Audi V8 is of course the Rs4 engine, 415bhp!! but the issue of using that engine is i don't think there is a standalone ECU out there at the minute that will handle its injectors (funny ones apparently) , but that was a few months ago so things may have progressed since then in the ECU world.

If you can find an Rs4 motor for under £2500 and a standalone to run it dive on it straight away!

[PW@Woodsport]

Quick update, here is my drivers side driveshaft, remember here we are trying to mate an Audi gearbox to Toyota hubs.... so without going for full custom made driveshafts which is a VERY expensive thing to do i needed to find a solution.

This is an Audi driveshaft from the 2.0ltr TDI model and i have managed to find a Toyota CV joint that slotted straight onto the Audi shaft I mean stuff like that just doesn't happen normally!

This shaft is now completely Plug and play on the drivers side, no other mods needed, it just works.



On the passenger side i need to use the same Toyota CV joint but i do need to shorten the driveshaft, details on that will happen when we actually do it but it is pretty simple due to the design of these shafts.

[System-G]

Good stuff there

[PW@Woodsport]

Cheers G.

Update: My v8 engine harness has now been sent off for modifying and my VEMS unit building... so when i get those back sometime in the next month or so it will not take very much to get it starting up although there will still be a ton of other work to do.

[PW@Woodsport]

Quick update, the front engine bay crossmember has now been reconstructed and moved forward.It has been seam welded into the chassis and tied into the old crossmember.I reckon this is a hell of a lot stronger than it was before,it also gives me a superb achorage point for the stiffeners im going to add later.Notice the bracket hanging off the engine with the hole in it.... the audi S8 has a torque mount here, so i am going to make another torque mount directly on my new chassis below that using a camry v6 front mount (essentially just a big rubber block) and i am also going to add the camry torque mount shock absorber,so my engine has its own suspension set up Seriously though the shocker will help dampen engine twisting under hard launches.The floorpans and tunnel area still need welding onto the new crossmember.



A quick glimpse of how the engine is hung, the engine bay now has two subframe mounting points, one either side of the engine.I have made an engine cradle to carry the full weight of the engine and this cradle bolts to the mounting points, doing it this way makes my whole engine/gearbox removable very quickly....







Also i have made a gearbox cradle as well, this started by making a plate that bolted to the gearbox itself (the silver bit), and two rubber blocks sit between this bracket and the cradle...



So that is the engine and gearbox hung... they do need to come back out to fit my flywheel,new timing belt and clutch so i will repaint the engine bay and finish off the loose ends then.All of the work has been done with the engine in the way so im keen to get it back out so that i can tidy everything up and repaint it.

The full weight of the engine/box are now on the wheels so i can see how much ground clearance i have got, it actually looks like i have MORE clearance than with the 4age! Certainly the V6 and 3sgte engines hang about 2" lower than this.This means i can lower the car as far as i like without fear of grounding the sump etc.

I have also ordered my lightweight V8 flywheel from Deltavag yesterday



So the project to build the Uk's first V8 Mr2 is well within sight now.

[alfiembra]

Hi Paul I've been following this project with interest but I'm a bit concerned about your engine cradles . Are you sure they are structurally strong enough? The box section looks quite small to me and with all the changes in direction and butt welds, I'd be looking to add gussets and stiffener plates wherever possible. Not doubting your obvious fabrication and engineering skills but had to ask. I work as a structural designer (posh name for a draffy) in the offshore industry and perhaps I'm too used to heavy connections and maybe I've lost touch with simple fit for purpose design.

Good luck with the project

Alan

[PW@Woodsport]

Hi alan, fair points.... the engine cradle itself is 40mm box,with 80mm plates where the rubber mounts sit.I still have to add bracing to the ends where it meets the chassis plates and i will probably end up beefing the cradle in other areas.I'm no engineer but i think this cradle only needs to carry the engine weight which it's doing now.My front torque mount and damper will be absorbing the loads produced by the engine flexing under load.That's the way i see it anyway, i could be wrong.

The gearbox cradle is doing nothing other than holding the back end of the gearbox in place, i don't think it is carrying any loads at all, again i could be wrong.I do plan to add gussets and stiffeners to both cradles though.

There will definately be some gussets where the engine cradle meets the chassis plates, i plan to weld four triangles on each face of the box.

I could have used much beefier box section on the engine cradle, the gearbox one is doing relatively little so i think that is fit for purpose but i strayed away from heavier box on the engine one to keep weight down.

I'm more than happy to take suggestions from knowledgeable folk like yourself though... as i'm pretty much out on a limb with this project (in other words a lot of it is made up as i go!)

More strength on the subframe is noted though,i will certainly look for ways to beef that up

[un1eash]

The gearbox cradle looks strong enough, E30 bmw's have something alot smaller that holds the gearbox up.

[PW@Woodsport]

Yes i agree, in fact the engine/gearbox is so finely balanced on the engine cradle and carrying 95% of the total weight (guess) that you can lift the gearbox up at the back with very little effort.I'm going to beef the engine one though as Alan suggests.

[PW@Woodsport]

Because the engine sits a few inches into the cabin meant that the fuel tank was then too long and i didn't want a fuel cell up front taking away my last bit of storage space.So after careful washing out of the tank and letting it breathe for a fortnight, we cut the end off the tank,removd 3" from the tank and then gas welded the end back on.The tank was then leak tested and finished off with resin and 2k black.



3" was removed at the red line..... i estimate i have lost about 3/4 of a gallon but needs must.

Please be very careful if you are remotely considering welding a fuel tank, we took every precaution over a number of weeks to make sure this was safe.

[PW@Woodsport]

One for the future this, but i just found a company called 034 motorsport that sell Audi V8 turbo manifolds!



Bolt on a pair of Ct26 or similar turbo's (lots of space for this left in my engine bay due to the engine layout) and orbit should be achieved quite easily i would have thought , this is most definately for stage 2 of the project though.

[PW@Woodsport]

Also i have just bought my exhaust silencer for the project... TVR T350 jobby, it has the correct pipe inlet configuration i am looking for, and the outlets will need modifying.This will be located in my boot which will now be totally dedicated to the exhaust, ECU, Traction control unit, and anything else that's needed.



Those TVR's sound amazing so this should do nicely.

I have also bought a pair of seats that will fit in what cabin space i have left! Still leather which is in keeping with my full leather interior, i will need to make runners but no biggy.

[PW@Woodsport]

I made the camry V6 torque mount fit on the v8, this should help a lot!



Also i have boxed in around the engine now, just some angle spot welded in for now to give me an idea how it's all going to look....



With that done i plonked my seat in and it fits nicely and i have enough room even at 6ft tall.

[pistol pete]

that is looking sweet and sooo much fun

[LimeyMk1]

Also i have just bought my exhaust silencer for the project... TVR T350 jobby, it has the correct pipe inlet configuration i am looking for, and the outlets will need modifying.This will be located in my boot which will now be totally dedicated to the exhaust, ECU, Traction control unit, and anything else that's needed.

Paul won't there be problems with heat and the electronics if they're located near the exhaust?

My DTA manual's pretty adament that the ECU should be kept away from heat sources.

[PW@Woodsport]

The exhaust and ECU/electrics will be kept well away from each other, the ECU in particular will have its own compartment and i am going to pay special attention to cooling in both the engine bay and boot.

Concern noted though mate, it all helps epsecially if it is something i've possibly overlooked

[PW@Woodsport]

A question for Alfiembra!

I have put some thought into your suggestion about my engine subframe cradle not being strong enough, and i have revised the design in the drawing below.... the yellow box section being my current subframe, i was planning on plating the entire underside of the box with 3mm plate (red area) and adding the blue gussets.

Do you think this is sufficient and/or can you advise on another/better way to do it? Your input is appreciated,cheers!

[coanda]

A question for Alfiembra!

I have put some thought into your suggestion about my engine subframe cradle not being strong enough, and i have revised the design in the drawing below.... the yellow box section being my current subframe, i was planning on plating the entire underside of the box with 3mm plate (red area) and adding the blue gussets.

Do you think this is sufficient and/or can you advise on another/better way to do it? Your input is appreciated,cheers!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/ ... rame-1.jpg

Whilst i may not be alfiembra.....I am a structural engineer in the aerospace industry....

The subframe may well end up taking torque because of it's relative stiffness, but, it looks like, from the pics, that it will take the torque in shear on the engine to subframe mounts. As such I don't think the plating is going to do much more than act as a protection against the elements - apart from directly underneath, which will carry load in shear. Just make sure you make a really decent connection between plate and subframe with the welds and you can ditch the gussets you've drawn.

On the subject of the 'curved' frame - as we know, welds are weaker than the surrounding metal so there is the possibility of the welds cracking under repeated loads - going over speed bumps or pot holes etc. I would suggest that those welds do need reinforcing just to be sure (I think that this is what alfiembre is getting at?) - this will help reduce any stress concentrations at the joint - thus reducing fatigue stresses which, ultimately lead to failure if not dealt with. If it were me, I'd consider two options;

1. channel reinforcement - u shaped channel bonded over the weld area from 'outside' of the subframe.

2. create a shaped section to be welded to the 'inside' of the subframe at each joint - bridging the gap so to speak.

In both cases you are adding extra material in order to reduce any stress concentrations at those weld joints.

Oh well, just some suggestions - it's the sort of thing I'd do.

Cheers

coanda

[PW@Woodsport]

Many thanks for taking the time to write that Coanda, i will do as you suggest, leave the gussets off and pay more attention to the end plate strength, also your idea to double skin the outside of the welded joins is a good one, all taken onboard and will be included in the next stage of subframe mods