HKS or Fujitsubo, any opinions - JDM

Discussion and technical advice for 84-89 AW10 & AW11 MR2. 3A-LU, 4A-GE, 4A-GZE.

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BMR2L
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HKS or Fujitsubo, any opinions - JDM

Post by BMR2L »

Got to work today and things were a bit noisier that usual. Closer inspection round the back showed that the silencer was no longer connected to the rest of the exhaust system, doh!

Any opinions on HKS versus Fujitsubo? Fujitsubo are a bit more expensive but claim to be all stainless versus the HKS claim of "more stainless than standard" which could mean just about anything. This is to replace an HKS silencer so I may be answering my own question as the HKS pipe is pretty seriously rusted at the point it parted company.

Also any of you import owners know if Japanese domestic 'legal' pipes are also legal in the UK. One day I expect to bring the SC back home so I'd like to know the silencer won't need changing again in a couple of years or so and that could influence my decision over whether to go with quality or economy.

Cheers, Alan
Charged
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Re: HKS or Fujitsubo, any opinions - JDM

Post by Charged »

We dont get either over in the UK. I'd go with the full stainless version though, based on what you have said.
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ligertigon
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Re: HKS or Fujitsubo, any opinions - JDM

Post by ligertigon »

Sorry, I can't answer your question. And sorry for temp hijacking your thread.
:oops:
But, can you tell me the difference between a JDM G and a G LTD, I am importing one soon and sometimes the auction sheets are hard to understand.... Is the na termed G and G-LTD too?
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Lauren
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Re: HKS or Fujitsubo, any opinions - JDM

Post by Lauren »

BMR2L wrote:
Also any of you import owners know if Japanese domestic 'legal' pipes are also legal in the UK. One day I expect to bring the SC back home so I'd like to know the silencer won't need changing again in a couple of years or so and that could influence my decision over whether to go with quality or economy.

Cheers, Alan


Can't see a problem with that. Plenty of SCs have come over with non-standard exhausts and continue to run them.
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Fab4MR2
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Re: HKS or Fujitsubo, any opinions - JDM

Post by Fab4MR2 »

I have both the HKS and Fujitsubo, for the AW11 SC (and an HKS for a NA), and the Fujitsubo appears to be much better made than the HKS for the SC.
Yes, the Fujitsubo does appear to be entirely made of stainless steel. The only bad part about that is that it will pretty much turn a dark shade after a lot of use. This just happens with heated stainless steel I'm afraid. At least this is what I have seen of other pictures of them.
I ordered the SC HKS before I knew about the SC Fujitsubo, but was not that impressed with it once I saw it. Their inlet pipe (hole diameter), at the inlet flange, is almost no bigger than stock. However, the pipe diameter then increases to the size they state on their website and elsewhere. This does no good what so ever, because it can't miraculously overcome the limited flow through the smaller hole at the flange opening. That is really stupid!
Additionally, HKS uses a twin canister muffler assembly, for their SC model, which is connected by a small pipe whose diameter is also smaller than the pipe that leads away from the inlet flange. I think the only real purpose their exhaust may serve is to maintain lower end torque, while perhaps making the exhaust sound better. Although, I tried it on the car for a little bit and was not that impressed with it. On the other hand, their model for the NA AW11 sounds quite nice and does make a small improvement to output and is made relatively well.
Now, more good news for the Fujitsubo: their inlet flange - hole diameter is about 2 1/4", much bigger than stock and bigger than the HKS (about the same size, or slightly bigger than the small u-shaped part of the HKS pipe, which leads from their inlet flange to their first canister). The Fujitsubo flange also appears to be thicker/stronger as well. I know that the HKS ones will bend rather easily if the stock o-ring gaskets are used. Unfortunately, both HKS and Fujitsubo supply flat gaskets for their exhausts, as neither uses an indented fitment for the oem circular gaskets, like the stock mufflers do. I have managed to use the stock gaskets on my HKS NA '87 AW11, but the HKS flange will bend a little. I am thinking of having the inlet flange on the Fujitsubo modified to accept the o-ring gaskets, as they seal much better. The HKS seals a bit poorly with their supplied gasket.
The Fujitsubo also has a one piece muffler core, so no small interconnecting pipe, like on the HKS, and comes with both exhaust hangars attached to it (the HKS also has both of these attached, but their fitting points are not as good as stock and one end just barely fits all the way through one of the rubber insulators). Another great point for the Fujitsubo is that it actually includes the small attachment, on the canister, which bolts to the catalytic inlet receiver flange, just like stock. Neither the NA or SC HKS units have this (very nice touch).
And finally, the exhaust tips on the Fujitsubo also appear to be stainless steel, but are more directly connected to the exhaust outlet pipes, than the HKS ones are, and I think they will start to turn dark as well. I have not installed mine yet, as I am rebuilding the engine first, but I have seen pictures of them after use, and I think that is the case.
Despite the darkening issue, I think the Fujitsubo is much better built and the stainless steel will surely make it last much longer and is worth the extra cost. I believe Fujitsubo also states hp gains on their website, which of course HKS will never do and you can listen to a Fujitsubo exhaust for a SW20. Unfortunately, they did not have a sound clip for the AW11, the last time I checked. The SW20 sounded rather nice. I am very anxious to install mine.
BMR2L
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Re: HKS or Fujitsubo, any opinions - JDM

Post by BMR2L »

Thanks Fab4MR2, good stuff. I should have a Fujitsubo on its way to me shortly.
Mk1 Turbo Powered Steve
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Re: HKS or Fujitsubo, any opinions - JDM

Post by Mk1 Turbo Powered Steve »

I had a Fujitsubo on my SC it did go black but the tailpipes always came up nice and shiney.
I loved the sound of it too!
I would have kept it but don't think it would fit my Turbo conversion.
Fab4MR2
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Re: HKS or Fujitsubo, any opinions - JDM

Post by Fab4MR2 »

BMR2L wrote:Thanks Fab4MR2, good stuff. I should have a Fujitsubo on its way to me shortly.

No problem. Always glad to help if I can. Nice to see someone going with a nice piece like that. Let us know how it works out. Hopefully, I'll have my rebuild done this century and I'll post some thoughts on the Fuji afterwards.

Mk1 Turbo Powered Steve wrote:I had a Fujitsubo on my SC it did go black but the tailpipes always came up nice and shiney.
I loved the sound of it too!
I would have kept it but don't think it would fit my Turbo conversion.

Great to hear about the outlet pipes! From the pictures I have seen, I couldn't be sure if it was a real problem, or maybe just the picture quality. I don't have too big a problem living with the cannister, etc. turning dark, but the though of the tailpipes doing the same, was a bit bothering. They are such a beautiful piece when brand new, I almost hate to run the engine long enough to darken it. I'll have to take plenty of pics while it's new and then look at them every once in awhile afterwards to remember what once was. sigh!
BMR2L
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Re: HKS or Fujitsubo, any opinions - JDM

Post by BMR2L »

Finally got around to test fitting the new Fujitsubo now that I'm on Xmas hols but having a couple of probs:

* the silencer wants to sit a bit over to the left so that the right hand stay is only just catching in the hanger and the left hand stay is sticking a long way through the its hanger, anyone else had similar fit problems?

* the old silencer (turned out not to be an HKS, no idea what it was) didn't seem to have a gasket between the 2 flanges, instead it had a pipe insert sticking out of the flange which slid into the cat about an inch or so, so the flange on the cat side is very rusty, I assume it'd be a good idea to clean that up before finally fitting everything?

Thanks for any help.

-Alan
Fab4MR2
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Re: HKS or Fujitsubo, any opinions - JDM

Post by Fab4MR2 »

BMR2L wrote:Finally got around to test fitting the new Fujitsubo now that I'm on Xmas hols but having a couple of probs:

* the silencer wants to sit a bit over to the left so that the right hand stay is only just catching in the hanger and the left hand stay is sticking a long way through the its hanger, anyone else had similar fit problems?

* the old silencer (turned out not to be an HKS, no idea what it was) didn't seem to have a gasket between the 2 flanges, instead it had a pipe insert sticking out of the flange which slid into the cat about an inch or so, so the flange on the cat side is very rusty, I assume it'd be a good idea to clean that up before finally fitting everything?

Thanks for any help.

-Alan

It sounds like it's almost the opposite of how the HKS fit on mine (short on the left and long on the right). Make sure that the insulators/hangars are not reversed, as that will make a big difference in how far the stays go through them. I have occasionally accidentally reversed them myself.

The old silencer sounds like it was a stock unit, as all of those had inner sleeves, which fit inside the cat and helped center it properly. However, it should also have had a round donut gasket to seal it properly, otherwise you would end up with a big exhaust leak.

Definitely clean up any rust or old gasket material from the connecting flanges or risk exhaust leaks. I actually had the outside of my cat ceramic coated and they sand blasted it first. It had been an absolute mess, but came out looking like brand new. They removed rust deposits from around the flanges that I could not even remove with a hammer and chisel. First, I had actually had to remove the entire exhaust collector, cat, and muffler as one piece and then take it to a muffler shop to have the bolts for the cat torched off as they were all just giant lumps off rust. The previous owner had not managed the exhaust well. The old gaskets had also virtually become one with the cat as well.
BMR2L
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Re: HKS or Fujitsubo, any opinions - JDM

Post by BMR2L »

Well, after most of a day lying on my back and much cursing its all back together. I even managed to salvage the bracket for mounting the cat protector after grinding the old nuts off of it (my first go with an angle grinder on metal :lol:).

First impressions its a lot quieter than whatever was on before (and I mean before the old one broke!) which was a bit of a suprise. Only had time to take it for a quick hurl round the block but at higher revs it was starting to sound nice and throaty.

But its still sitting well over to the left. If I try to pull it over to the right it will go, but the left end pivots backwards and the right end forwards so there's no way for the hangers to line up. Is it possible that the downpipe is somehow sitting further left than it ought to be?

The flange on the cat was a real mess even after going over it with a wire brush in the drill so its blowing a bit at the joint. Not really badly enough to hear it but I can feel it. Any thoughts on using something like Holts Firegum to get a better seal? Is this stuff just for temporary repairs or should it last?

Thanks again and Merry Xmas to all, Alan
Fab4MR2
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Re: HKS or Fujitsubo, any opinions - JDM

Post by Fab4MR2 »

Merry Xmas.

Regarding the apparent misfit, here are some ideas. It could be possible that your downpipe/flexpipe has been bent/twisted a bit from previous ill attempts at fitting prior exhausts, or even from the occasional accidental bang on it. The flex pipe itself can loose its shape, especially over age. Additionally, the downpipe can be ever so slightly misaligned, on the exhaust manifold, during installation, which will be magnified at the cat end of it. I have always found it best to loosen the downpipe nuts (x3) and then loosely connect all downstream pieces, including the hangars and stays. Once you have everything properly aligned you can then start tightening all the nuts and bolts in sequence, starting at the manifold and working towards the exhaust. Tighten the hangars and stays last, in the same sequence, as the fit between main components is the most important. Proper alignment of the components and tightening of their nuts and bolts can make a HUGE difference in the sound of the exhaust, when completed.
You may even find that twisting/realigning the downpipe to cat, and cat to exhaust, connections, a little bit, can make a huge difference in how they fit and align with each other. I also have learned to ignore the BGB torque specs and use my own best judgment, as the BGB specs are ridiculously tight and can cause for quite an overly loud system from the extra vibration that the overly tight joints cause.
Regarding the cat to exhaust seal, when I have issues there I have used a non-permanent gasket material on both sides of whatever gasket I am using and that has always been just enough to seal up what ever small leaks I have had. Using a permanent material will just cause problems later, like you are encountering now.
Good luck!
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